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Discussion: Batter out of the box

Posted Discussion
Sept. 18, 2023
wbaum
Men's 50
11 posts
Batter out of the box
Am I the only one who feels the stepping out of the box rule needs to be changed? Organizations, who don't use a mat, consider a strike to be a ball that lands behind the plate. The SSUSA strike zone begins where the front of the plate begins. This is 17" closer to the front of the batter's box. For a batter to hit balls that would hit the front edge of the mat, the same way they can hit a ball that hits the back of the mat, they need to be allowed to use the same stride length for both instances. For this to happen with a ball landing on the front edge of the strike mat, an average batter's stride will have the batter stepping out of the batter's box, causing many ambitious umpires to call the batter out. The batter has NO advantage over hitting the same ball that would land at the back of the mat, should they be standing at least 17" farther back in the box. In SSUSA, the batter's box does not get adjusted for this shorter distance from the front of the mat to the front of the box, in relation to the location of the strike zone being moved closer to the pitcher. I believe there are other organizations who will allow the batter to step 1 foot out of the front of the box, as long as they keep 1 foot behind the front of the plate.

It is time for SSUSA needs to make a rule change to resolve this issue.
Sept. 18, 2023
Enviro-Vac
Men's 65
479 posts
100% agreed
Sept. 18, 2023
Chad303
Men's 40
11 posts
With the way batter's boxes are painted on turf and grass, the front of the box size changes all the time. Do you know what doesn't change? The plate. SSUSA should use the rule that your back foot should not be in front of the plate. That way it doesn't matter where your front foot lands. Just my $.02
Sept. 18, 2023
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4194 posts
SSUSA considers rules amendments one time per year ... Here's the "deal" ...

The Rules Committee does NOT take comments made on this forum into account when considering a change in policy, procedure or rules ... We expect interested parties to either [1] attend the annual meetings in person to be heard OR [2] submit identifiable written correspondence (by email to Info@seniorsoftball.com with "Rules Committee" in the Memo Line or snail-mail) ... You should plan now to attend the meetings if at all possible and present your arguments for changes ... We're very visitor-friendly! ...

Please note that ALL the arguments and suggestions made here over the year on this forum are specifically EXCLUDED from potential Meeting Agenda inclusion ... This is due to the generally unregulated and anonymous nature of the forum, especially when many of those suggestions contradict each other ... We hope to hear from you by proper channels or, even better, see you in Ft. Myers in early December ...

Sept. 18, 2023
Full Count
54 posts
Well said WBAUM. I quoted you and sent an email.
I think most players are ready for a rule
change regarding the batters box. Thank you Dave for the proper proticall.
Sept. 18, 2023
wjconnor
Men's 55
1 posts
WBAUM - Agreed! After what we saw at Big League Dreams in Las Vegas this past weekend, we've been having this same discussion with the same reasoning. Well stated sir!
Sept. 18, 2023
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4194 posts

What box????




Sept. 18, 2023
Junior2412
17 posts
Chad303........that's a TOTALLY valid point about the different size batter's boxes from field to field(batter's box is totally irrelevant, especially based on the pic the Dave posted).......that's
the reason why the U-trip rule is EXACTLY what you pointed out......the batter's back leg can NOT be in front of the plate when they make contact.........otherwise "out"............although a few years back, the umpire was ONLY calling it "out" IF the other team brought it to his attention.......I can live with that.........
Sept. 18, 2023
JohnO28
Men's 50
68 posts
It's ironic that Dave used that guys pics, it's been assumed by bascially every Midwest team that SSUSA couldn't actually see that guy to know he exists considering he plays on average of at least 6 different teams all in the 50s division every year to the point his nickname is Rent-A-Catcher... Now that there is actually video proof of him existing and was posted by someone who works at SSUSA HQ they have no argument that NOBODY plays for more than 2 teams in a season... Thanks for sharing Dave.
Sept. 19, 2023
mad dog
Men's 65
4185 posts
so lets take away a pitcher can pitch if the batter can't hit it......ya want the height lower,ya want to be able to run out to the mound to hit it,are there any rules that a batter should follow.......batters have rocket launchers in there hands quit bitching,so many damn babies out there......
Sept. 19, 2023
Dbax
Men's 65
2080 posts
Exactly!
Sept. 19, 2023
BruceinGa
Men's 70
3223 posts
Who rattled Mad Dog's chain??
Sept. 19, 2023
spoonplugger
Men's 60
95 posts
Looks like BLD has dirt infield ??

Hit from the batterís box Not the playing field !!

Hi Mad Dog
Sept. 19, 2023
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4194 posts
BLD has artificial turf infields (including the foul territory areas) and grass outfields ...
Sept. 19, 2023
txnighttrain
116 posts
As a person who has umpired, I would have called the person in that photo out. It is obvious that he is so far out with his back foot in front of the mat, his front foot is no way in the legal box. Even though the lines are gone (many times from players erasing and not enforced) it would be my judgement he was definitely out of the box area. The idea here is to protect the pitcher because it puts him about 5 feet closer to the pitcher and makes it harder for the pitcher to defend himself.
Sept. 19, 2023
txnighttrain
116 posts
The box is supposed to be 7ft long and 3ft wide that includes the lines. Both feet are required to be in the box when the batter makes contact with the ball. Touching any part of the box or line with your feet means you are in the box. The box is measured from the middle corner of the plate. It is 4 ft forward from the middle corner. The plate from the middle corner to the front edge of plate is 8.5 inches. This means the box extends 3 ft 3.5 inches in front of the mat. A bat is 34 inches long. So a bat length plus 5.5 inches. This guy is clearly beyond that distance with his front foot.
Sept. 19, 2023
wbaum
Men's 50
11 posts
My point is still, the box does not get moved forward for ssusa. The entire plate is now part of the strike zone mat, not just the area behind the plate. If the box is fine in "behind plate is a strike games", then why can't the box be adjusted to compensate for the repositioning of the ssusa strike zone? The box can remain the same size. I just feel it should be moved forward to compensate for this. If the lines are painted, as on turf, then by utilizing the same rule that usssa uses, this will easily provide for such an adjustment no matter where the box is painted, or for when the box is wiped away during play.

Nobody is asking for batters to be 5' out of the box, to be that much closer to the pitcher, like the above photo example. I am only 6' tall, but can't imagine how difficult it must be for a 6'4" batter to hit a ball at the front of the mat because their naturally longer stride requires them to step out of the box to hit a pitch that is 14-19"" shorter than organizations who don't include the plate as a strike. The photo above demonstrates an unsafe scenario. Fairly allowing batters to hit the entire strike zone does not put the pitcher at any further risk.

Doesn't is seem right for ssusa to create a place for batters to stand that is the same as it would be for a strike zone that traditionally starts 14"-19" back? Allowing that same distance forward because of the plate being a strike is only fair. This also eliminates the overly ambitious umpires who can't wait to call a batter out for the heel being 1" over the line.
Sept. 19, 2023
caps14
Men's 50
4 posts
Played last week in the 55's at big league dreams the ump called seven of our guys out of the box in the first game and 4 of the other team thats two innings worth of no runs in a six inning game it was ridiculous and we had the same ump the second game and he did the same thing he wanted to be the star of the game it's not right pay all that money for nothing.never play there again.
Sept. 19, 2023
Dbax
Men's 65
2080 posts
Itís not too hard to stay in the box.
Sept. 20, 2023
titanhd
Men's 60
632 posts
JohnO28. You made the statement in a contained thread. .
"NOBODY plays for more than 2 teams in a season."

When did this become a rule?
Sept. 20, 2023
JohnO28
Men's 50
68 posts
TitanHD,

I have been told by SSUSA HQ specifically Ant that no player is allowed to play for more than 2 teams in the same age group in a season. If a player is on a roster for example at 50 AAA buy never even plays a tourney for them but then is released from that team and he plays for another team that year he's not allowed to play for anyone else the whole season

The scenario that happened to a guy we tried to pick up was he agreed to play for a team in MI and they put him on a roster their team roster but he never played a tourney for them. He asked to be released from the team when he realized they were only going to play 2 tourneys all year. He got on another roster and didn't feel he was being used properly and was basically just being used as a runner. Him and that manager came to an agreement that he would he released. It was then he found out from Ant that the only team he could play for for the rest of the year was the team he was just being released from according to SSUSA rules that no play may be released from 2 rosters in the same age group and still be eligible to play for another team. Apparently it's supposed to prevent team hopping but it's rarely enforced from what we've seen.
Sept. 20, 2023
JayPar
2 posts
The picture that Dave added isn't even at the correct fields, I personally played at everyone of these crap ass BLD fields and the batters boxes were NOT all the same. Some where smaller than the regulation size. I seen 1 team get called out 5 times in the same game. Front foot coming out of the box was called out. not all umpires agreed on this. We even asked the umpire to get the director and was told "you're not going to tell me what to do". We had to play 4 days here and had to pay entree fee of $8 everytime..bullcrap! These sorry ass fields shouldn't even have a tourny played on them..they removed all the turf in the outfield and replaced with grass which had huge bare spots all over..birds everywhere eating grass seeds..I actually killed 2 birds with a line drive!!! This was a circus show.
Sept. 20, 2023
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4194 posts
JayPar ... That's a joke picture and you probably shouldn't read too much into me posting it just for laughs ... It's an old gag picture someone sent me years ago after we had another of these "IT'S LIFE AND DEATH 'CUZ HE'S OUT OF THE BOX!!!" feeding frenzy type message board parties ... I haven't any idea where it came from originally, but it's certainly not BLD ...
Sept. 21, 2023
caps14
Men's 50
4 posts
Jaypar is 100% correct it was a circus there the box the umpires the fueld all sucked
Sept. 21, 2023
nickname36
74 posts
"EXACTLY"

Amazing, I post the dimensions and height of a basketball
back board on a thread that was asking about 6 and 12 foot
pitching height. My post gets deleted and then I read a few
of the posts on this thread and there not deleted why is that?????

Even the guy ripping BLD's park still has his post on here mine gets
deleted with absolutely nothing derogatory just dimensions.

Sorry JayPar fair is fair.

Sept. 22, 2023
big unit
18 posts
First of all SSUSA representatives should act a little more professional when addressing the teams concerns about the batter box issues at the big league dreams complex we are not making jokes about this issue. The umpires were all saying the same thing about enforcing the batter box rule of stepping out of the box , this only happens at the BLD complex not at the other complex,i recently played at the BLD in Vegas and realized that there was one field ( Yankees)where the plate was set back further than the the other fields which I didnít see one call for being out of box on that field. Why was this plate set back further than the other fields or was the box made bigger ???
All plates and batters boxes should be the same at all fields no exceptions !
If they are not all the same than there should be an exception in place for all fields.

The problem is that the plate was never intended to be called a strike when we were playing young guy ball which all seniors have played. Now that the organization have decided to make the plate a strike ,the organization will have to take this in consideration and give some leniency since we now have to deal with the plate being a strike and have to protect the front of the plate , the only way to do this is to move forward in the box so we can protect plate since it now is a strike. Instead of being a ball as it was when we all starting playing this game. I know Ssusa isnít going to like this but ISSA states you must have 1 foot in box.

This has been an ongoing issue at this complex (BLD)since i have been playing senior ball, i really feel this should be dealt with in a professional manner asap not wait til the winter meetings or the rule change committee in December. This isnít the first time teams have been concerned about this and SSUSA knows about this issue, but they want us to attend or write in comments in a email which is a way to push this issue off til then.we pay a lot money to attend these tournaments for which we should get professional representation from the governing body for issues that are concerning to all the teams.
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