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Discussions in message board topic: Rules of the game

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Batter's Box

» Wayne 37: Since a few posters are flying off the handle at each other, how ...
      »B.J.: wayne.. I know you mean me.. cuz Dave is only a semi-wanna be ...
      »lowprofile: Hey Wayne, I'm note interpreting it that way, some portion of both ...
      »DCPete: Maybe you come from the Bizarro World in the old Superman comics ...
      »Wayne 37: lowprofile, I understand what you are saying....and you didn't ...
      »Wayne 37: DCPete, can you describe an IFF rule? Here is one of your statements ...
      »B.J.: Dave, please shut this post down and end his incoherent babbling
      »mad dog: i'm with wayne on this.....batters put your feet inside the box ...
7 July 20, 2019 286

Ruling on Run Down

» STL0: I was playing in a SSUSA tournament this weekend and had a situation ...
      »Fuzz: As you stated, it's my understanding the runner is allowed to retreat ...
      »4040club: It would seem this is the same situation as a run down where the base ...
      »B.J.: lmao... Dave, just can't let it go huh !!.. well at least this time ...
      »Nancy Allen: STL0, when I first started umpiring, I mostly did NSA. They had a ...
      »DaveDowell: HAT MAN - Vinny, you are absolutely correct in your criticism ... I ...
      »B.J.: Dave, no problem, and my apologies also the conversation just got a ...
      »lb16: STL0 - To answer your question if it wasn't already. I missed the BJ ...
      »STL0: I guess I missed some previous dialogue and the question got hijacked ...
8 July 17, 2019 334

Dang

» Wayne 37: Why lock a thread after only two days? Going back to the courtesy ...
0 July 15, 2019 72

Does the run count?

» cheezhed1: Recently in our local senior league we had a play that needs ...
      »DaveDowell: YES. This gets asked frequently, but the timing play aspects ...
      »B.J.: when a run scores is under RULE 5.7 .. for your scenario read 5.7 B ...
      »stick8: Cheezhed1, Dave is correct and BJ listed the correct rule #. Its a ...
      »DaveDowell: stick8 ... Or my related favorite: "Five on three", two outs and the ...
      »TexasTransplant: Dave, it even makes me mad when I see a player on the opposing team ...
      »mad dog: yep dave .... that is a good one also...caught a team doing that and ...
6 July 11, 2019 612

Touching Portion of the 1B Double Bag in Foul Territory

» SCUBA: A batter hits a double, but in doing so only touches the portion of ...
      »B.J.: yes it is ok.. their is no penalty for the batter if he only touches ...
1 July 8, 2019 236

COURTESY RUNNER

» titanhd: RULE: A courtesy runner must report to, and be acknowledged by, the ...
      »TimMcElroy: This rule rule change was intended to speed up the game. Getting ...
      »Gavin5: I believe it's unreasonable to expect the umpire to keep up with the ...
      »DaveDowell: Respectfully, this circumstance had nothing to do with an illegal CR ...
      »stick8: Titanhd, good games last week! I didnít see exactly what occurred ...
      »B.J.: As an umpire I never want it said I was looking for a cheap out.. ...
      »DaveDowell: B.J. - The "legislative intent", as Tim mentioned, was ONLY to save ...
      »B.J.: Dave, I understand and that is great that it is discussed in the ...
      »DaveDowell: ß8.5(5) ē COURTESY RUNNER OFFICIALLY IN THE GAME ...A courtesy ...
      »titanhd: In our case the UMPIRE knew the rule and knew we were in "violation" ...
      »DaveDowell: B.J. ... Here's a more concise language change, which I believe ...
      »B.J.: Dave, this is the meeting I referred to (the Nat'l Rules Committee ...
      »DaveDowell: B.J. ... I (We?) may be "picking at nits" here, but the CR may still ...
      »stick8: I do agree with BJ that it isnít the umpires responsibility to go ...
      »Nancy Allen: I agree except on a point raised by Gavin5 and alluded to by stick8. ...
      »B.J.: Dave... lol that's why it's always good to have a can of nit spray ...
      »stick8: Nancy what you and BJ do is what I try to do but I feel the best way ...
      »B.J.: Stick, the C/R should not have been allowed into the game and yes 2 ...
      »Nancy Allen: stick8, I totally agree with BJ but will most likely never use a ...
      »stick8: BJ and Nancy, there is one more part of the rule. That player who ...
      »Nancy Allen: stick8, ok, I will share mine. We were at a qualifier. Our good ...
      »garyheifner: When a CR goes out to run in the same inning for a 2nd time, It is ...
      »Nancy Allen: Gary, the times that I have seen it all seemed to be senior moments. ...
22 July 5, 2019 602

Do we win or do we lose

» joebodyman: Here is the situation. Bottom of the seventh inning, game tied, with ...
      »TexasTransplant: It's a timing play. If the runner from third crossed the plate ...
      »DaveDowell: If the correct call was made, you are a WINNER and the game is over ...
      »1bounce: The defensive team could still appeal that the runner on 3rd left ...
      »DaveDowell: While that is a true statement, it was not a component of the ...
      »lb16: Question is what did the ump call. I am assuming he called it ...
      »stick8: Joebodyman, the run scores, game over. Itís a timing play, not a ...
      »joebodyman: The umpire called it correctly but there was a lot of discussion on ...
      »grayhitter59: Hey Dave, in this case if they would have appealed runner leaving ...
      »lb16: grayhitter59 - This is a timing play if runner scored before appeal ...
      »Nancy Allen: There is a lot of confusion between a force out and what we in the ...
      »DaveDowell: TexasTransplant has stated the best (by far) simple rule to remember ...
      »Wayne 37: Another one is appeals aren't time plays.
12 July 1, 2019 627

Explaination please

» Wayne 37: garocket writes: Wayne I thought you were an UMPIRE. You said ...
0 June 30, 2019 199

foul ball on no fouls left

» bkb555: if a player catches a foul ball on the batter's "no fouls left" is it ...
      »mck71: bkb - 9.4 ē FOUL FINAL STRIKE Upon hitting a foul ball on the final ...
      »Wayne 37: Catch and carry the ball is dead all runners awarded one base.
      »B.J.: yes and the runners can advance on "1st touch".. on the catch and ...
      »lb16: B.J. - Not in Wayne's world!!
      »Wayne 37: Unless something has changed: A FOUL BALL is a batted ball that ...
      »DaveDowell: Fellas, it's an excellent idea to get your terminology precise and ...
      »lb16: Dave - So would a base runner who left the bag on 1st touch on a ball ...
      »DaveDowell: lb16 ... I concur and, more important, so does the Official SSUSA ...
      »Wayne 37: D. First hits the ground or is FIRST TOUCHED OVER FOUL TERRITOR ...
      »DaveDowell: Seems straight forward to most of us ... Certainly not in the ...
      »B.J.: sorry I can't help it.. I have to agree with wayne on part of ...
      »Wayne 37: A little edit for clarity would be GREAT! Pass this around at your ...
      »DaveDowell: Thanks Wayne ... Write it up and submit it through proper channels ...
13 June 22, 2019 781

interpretation

» curty: situation: Bottom of last inning, bases loaded, no out, home team ...
      »lb16: I have triple play ball game! Ump got it right the 1st time.
      »Wayne 37: I don't even know what you just said. Left out a lot of detail it ...
      »Wayne 37: situation: Bottom of last inning, bases loaded, no out, home tea ...
      »Uncle Mike: Sounds like R2 crossed the commitment line (not the scoring line) and ...
      »JimmyG: Agree with Uncle Mike
      »Wayne 37: Uncle Mike, How is R3 out of baseline (base path)? The runner ...
      »dug8: Is R2 out because he crossed the commitment line? Is he out ...
      »Wayne 37: Good questions dug8. I'm glad it wasn't my game is all I can say.
      »B.J.: curty.. runner 1 scores.. runner 2 you said passed the scoring ...
      »Wayne 37: The most fascinating part of this post is that the offensive team ...
      »AJC: Actually the tying run would have been on 3rd and the winning run on ...
      »stick8: Going by the play as described: óObviously R1 scored. R2 crossed ...
      »Uncle Mike: I understand what you guys are saying- runner makes his own base ...
      »AJC: I should also add... why did the 3rd base coach send R2 home in that ...
      »Wayne 37: a direct line from base to base and that you can deviate 3 feet from ...
      »Uncle Mike: The key sentence to me is : After 25 minutes of discussion, only the ...
      »curty: my bad on "scoring line" as it was commit line. Runner called for out ...
      »stick8: Uncle Mike, that umpire was incorrect calling R3 out for running out ...
      »Uncle Mike: @stick8 That's why I said he should of appealed and won. The umpire ...
      »stick8: Uncle Mike, I didnít read Curtys post until just now. Iím not sure ...
      »stick8: And youíre correct about appealing, presuming itís to the other ...
      »Wayne 37: I probably would have tossed the coach just for running across the ...
      »TXTrouble3: Great scenario discussion...I do have a question regarding "Commit ...
      »DaveDowell: TXTrouble3 ... Base runner retreating back to the 3rd base side of ...
      »stick8: TXTrouble3, Dave is corrrct, itís an automatic out. No tagging is ...
25 June 15, 2019 868

Ruling

» garyheifner: Batter mis-hits a short pop up down 1st base line short of 1st base. ...
      »45caliber: Foul ball once in foul territory
      »BOURGEOIS: If the bat is dropped in foul territory and the ball rolls into the ...
      »BOURGEOIS: See Video ...
      »B.J.: Bourgeois has the correct call
      »lb16: And what was umpires explanation as to why this was a fair ball?
      »stick8: Foul ball
      »Nancy Allen: Definitely foul. Maybe the umpire misapplied this rule (only ever ...
      »garyheifner: ump was told that ruling by another ump
      »Nancy Allen: Did he phone it in? Goodness. BJ, if you say anything about Austin, ...
      »garyheifner: Same ump just asked me tonight--what if the bat was in fair territory?
      »Nancy Allen: Gary, the rule above would apply. The only catch would be whether ...
      »garyheifner: Thanks for the replies Just something that we don't see often.
      »Wayne 37: [[[the rule above would apply. The only catch would be whether the ...
      »Nancy Allen: It is a baseball video. This is softball. 9.2 R above has the word ...
      »B.J.: wayne.. here try this web-site it's for BASEBALL umpires then you ...
      »stick8: Had a play in a high school baseball game earlier this year. No one ...
      »Wayne 37: Question. Why would anybody in their right mind intentionally throw ...
      »Nancy Allen: stick8, I agree, but when the rule specifically says intention that ...
      »jimperry19: At one time I found the whole Nancy Allen, Wayne, BJ thing kind of ...
      »Wayne 37: I agree...I can discuss a rule, but on the other hand
20 June 12, 2019 943

What Calls Can Be Questioned and Reviewed by Tournament Director

» DonC13: I am putting this question here to get a for sure ruling, for any ...
      »DaveDowell: Hi DonC ... I'm going to take a run at the definitive answer on this ...
      »coop3636: Hey I want to put in my 2 cents I have over the years had three "do ...
      »DaveDowell: Agreed, coop3636, on a conceptual basis ... But we did NOT review a ...
      »DonC13: Dave...Thank you for the full and detailed response. I now understand ...
      »DaveDowell: Thanks DonC ... And your observations are, again, spot on ... This ...
      »coop3636: Dave I have a question... or statement A judgment call cannot ...
      »DaveDowell: Brett, here's your answer: You are 101% wrong on this one, and it ...
      »coop3636: Hey Dave I reread the original post In my opinion, that post is ...
      »B.J.: coop3636.. I'm with Dave on this.. in the OP the HP umpire apparently ...
      »DaveDowell: Brett ... As long as you cling to the false premise that she JUDGED ...
      »coop3636: OK I concede..lol coop3636
      »DaveDowell: No worries, coop! ... Everything you typed about judgment calls was ...
      »Wayne 37: May I post without chico senior's permission? When you call a ball ...
      »DaveDowell: NOPE ... Wrong (again) Wayne ... This incident was not a judgment ...
      »chico senior: Wayne - You have my permission to continue your incorrect ...
      »Wayne 37: No Dave, I'm only wrong because I don't adhere to your perception. ...
      »B.J.: Dave, suggestion... there should be a close the thread rule lol .. ...
      »Garocket: Wayne I think Dave explained the situation pretty good. The umpire ...
      »DaveDowell: Sure picking at a lot of nits here, Wayne! ... She (eventually) got ...
      »Mulewhipper: Dave's original post on this, precisely and eloquently explains the ...
      »Wayne 37: So having a slightly different opinion is picking nits now? A little ...
      »chico senior: Wayne - Youíre a real piece of work. This has nothing to do with ...
      »Wayne 37: Calm down, Sling Blade. Chico - Now you're picking boogers. I ...
      »TimMcElroy: Name calling and personal attacks. Beyond rdiculous. Please close ...
      »DaveDowell: Congratulations, Wayne, on yet another successful THREAD KILL ... ...
25 June 12, 2019 1146

You make the call

» dug8: Line drive hit up the middle, defense playing 5 man. Ball hits off of ...
      »umpire 14: Live ball. Wait for results of play.
      »DaveDowell: umpire 14 is generally correct ... Here's the full text of the ...
      »dug8: Dave.... so, live ball regardless of a fielder behind the runner that ...
      »DaveDowell: Correct conclusion, but maybe an incorrect analysis to get there ... ...
      »B.J.: Dave, if the ball goes off the pitchers glove isn't he now considered ...
      »DaveDowell: B.J. ... I copied and pasted the above section directly from the ...
      »B.J.: Dave, yes... I know that.. my question is where in the rule book does ...
      »DaveDowell: B.J. ... That's the parenthetical internal rule reference at the end ...
      »dug8: Dave - I need to re-word my statement. If no middle infielder, then ...
      »stick8: I have to side with BJ on this one. As described in the opening ...
      »Wayne 37: Bill, the runner who was struck with the ball can't do anything ...
      »chico senior: Why bring uo interference? Nothing in the original question had ...
      »grayhitter59: this sounds like dodge ball to me. Once the ball is touched by the ...
13 June 12, 2019 728

Over-ruled call confusion

» 45caliber: Here's the situation: Pool play game for seeding. Tournament is ...
      »titanhd: Scoring Line OR Scoring Plate. If there is a Scoring Plate runner ...
      »creins: Not sure why the Tournament Director would overrule. I would take ...
      »Monty33: Creins......that rule wouldn't apply to this situation as the complex ...
      »Nancy Allen: 8.10 ē SCORING LINE AND SCORING PLATE A base runnerís foot down on ...
      »creins: 8.10 ē SCORING LINE AND SCORING PLATE A base runnerís foot down on ...
      »45caliber: Monty33 and Nancy Allen: This was in Columbia, MO. Missouri Open. ...
      »Nancy Allen: 45caliber, thanks for the information. I will give you a non-senior ...
      »TimMcElroy: We had a situation in the Glen Burnie tournament this weekend that I ...
      »Nancy Allen: Tim, I totally agree with you. It is a good point about throw down ...
      »TimMcElroy: I am happy with the current setup because scoring lines are the safer ...
      »DaveDowell: This seems to be the "issue of the week" ... In Rock 'n Reno at ...
      »B.J.: Nancy.. with tour. ball that is why it is VERY important that all the ...
      »45caliber: Tim, Nancy "I suspect that there is a little more to this story" ...
      »Nancy Allen: BJ, thanks I agree. If there was an umpire meeting where this was ...
14 June 4, 2019 730

Dumb question: Is stealing a base allowed? Or advancing on a passed ball?

» jgoff5113: I can't find anywhere in the official rule book where it says that ...
      »B.J.: No..stealing and advancing on a passed PITCHED ball is not allowed in ...
      »jgoff5113: That's what I thought/assumed, B.J. Thank-you. Still...wish I could ...
      »TimMcElroy: RULE 8.4(8) WHEN RUNNERS CAN ADVANCE AT THEIR RISK Runners are ...
      »jgoff5113: Thanks Tim, for finding the relevant text in the rule book. ...
      »Nancy Allen: jgoff5113, B.J. and Tim are both correct. I only am going to add ...
      »TimMcElroy: I'm borrowing a line from Dave Dowell here- There's no need to ...
      »jgoff5113: Thanks again, Tim, Nancy and B.J. Going back to your first post, ...
      »HSquared: Infield Fly
      »k man: jgoff, I think I found what you were looking for. Page 41 in rule ...
      »stick8: Getting back to the topic there is no stealing that Iím aware of in ...
      »jgoff5113: Thanks k man, but my reading of Rule 7.4 A/B is that the dead ball ...
      »k man: goff, as I read it section 7A specifically says 'and batter does not ...
      »Nancy Allen: jgoff5113, I know that I get passionate about my projects at times, ...
      »jgoff5113: Thanks for your comments Nancy. There is a reason behind what I am ...
      »Nancy Allen: jgoff5113, thanks for explaining that. I was talking with my park ...
      »jgoff5113: What I'm putting together, Nancy, is what I believe are the potential ...
      »Wayne 37: RULE 8.4(8) WHEN RUNNERS CAN ADVANCE AT THEIR RISK Runners are ...
      »B.J.: here we go again.. D is not worded incorrectly.. a runner may ...
      »Nancy Allen: D is worded correctly. Refusal to understand it does not make it ...
      »jgoff5113: Thanks Wayne 37. See first post from TimMcElroy above, citing the ...
      »Wayne 37: You can advance on a FAIR fly ball that is first touched. You ...
      »B.J.: wayne.. let me try to write you a scenario that even you might ...
      »Wayne 37: .. a fly ball that is over FOUL territory goes off the edge of the ...
      »SSUSA Staff: jgoff5113 ... I'm sorry that this initial inquiry on your part has ...
24 May 31, 2019 809

Rulebook available in Spanish?

» jgoff5113: Does anyone know whether there exists a version of the senior slow ...
      »DaveDowell: No hemos publicado una versiůn de Rulebook en espaŮol. °Buena suerte!
      »jgoff5113: Entiendo Dave. Gracias.
      »titanhd: Download rule book as word text document. Once downloaded as word ...
      »jgoff5113: Thanks so much titanhd. Now...if only I could find the link to the ...
      »DaveDowell: jgoff5113 ... From the MENU bar at the top of every page of this ...
      »jgoff5113: Thanks again Sr. Dowell. I actually did find it under TOURNAMENTS ...
6 May 28, 2019 251

2 different levels in the same bracket in a TOC

» tall_thunder: Hey Dave, or Rules committee, there's been a lot of conversation ...
      »Jawood: Speaking of HR's, if there was a progressive HR rule, there would be ...
      »Dbax: The one up rule would solve everything. So simple.
      »Uncle Mike: I agree with every post Iíve read on this thread. Hereís another good ...
3 May 26, 2019 576

Courtesy Runners When the Team Bats Around

» jgoff5113: Question for you experts out there: We all know that a player can ...
      »DaveDowell: NOPE ... A courtesy runner may run only one time per inning ... The ...
      »jgoff5113: Thank-you, Dave. I had never heard this exception-to-the-rule, and ...
      »DaveDowell: Sort of like the Farmers Insurance ad series, "..we seen a few things ...
      »jgoff5113: Thank YOU, Dave, for answering my rules question!
      »Wayne 37: To add to the conversation...ÖÖ..a runner who has had a courtesy ...
      »DaveDowell: I THINK I said that exactly a month ago today (04/14/2019) ē Also, ...
      »chico senior: Way to go Wayne! We all love your well timed comments. LMAO
      »B.J.: not sure if this was mentioned.. but once a runner gets a courtesy ...
      »Wayne 37: I read the thread pretty thoroughly and don't remember reading that. ...
      »stever: WHOAA!!! That last comment was pretty snarky and totally uncalled ...
10 May 20, 2019 1313

Rules for Courtesy Runner from the plate in regular leagues (non-tournament).

» Turbobob: Can you players in regular leagues who use a courtesy runner (CR) ...
      »chico senior: Our rules are as follows: 1. Coach must notify umpire before games ...
      »Omar Khayyam: Our league has a broad span of ages (50 to 93) and also some women ...
2 May 17, 2019 211

Playing back to a lower class

» Ozzy#1: Why is it that you think your getting rewarded for being moved up in ...
      »TimMcElroy: The higher rated team is considered to be better on BOTH sides of the ...
      »Ozzy#1: Well Timmy youíre kidding me right. So letís handicap the upper class ...
      »TimMcElroy: Why so angry? I merely answered the question. Are you suggesting ...
      »Ozzy#1: I'm not angry Tim it's just frustrating going to tournaments and ...
      »Jawood: The upper team should get to use their homerun rule. Giving up 5 runs ...
      »TimMcElroy: Take an 8 team division using Ozzy#1's scenario: 50 Major teams (2) ...
      »Ozzy#1: Isn't giving up 5 runs and taking away 3 HR's the same thing. Why ...
      »TimMcElroy: Taking 3 HR away from your team is not a penalty. It encourages your ...
      »Ozzy#1: Obviously this conversation is going nowhere. I'm done with this ...
      »NPW#9: I've always said the same thing Ozzy the upper team gets a double ...
      »DaveDowell: NPW#9 ... Respectfully, there seems to be an alternative line of ...
      »lb16: Dave that is the timberworks thread which your comments have been ...
      »DaveDowell: lb16 ... Yep! ... No reason to voluntarily slide back under that bus ...
      »Ozzy#1: Dave Dowell here's a point I'm trying to make. When we get mixed ...
      »Bruster55: The best scenario would be to play 55 Major teams and just give up ...
      »DCPete: It seems like this debate would make a lot more sense if someone ...
      »L.Martin: And they wonder why teams donít want to move up, less teams to play, ...
      »Fuzz: I agree with Ozzy and have been saying the same thing for years. Each ...
      »Garocket: The way I see it is if you let each team hit their homeruns. That's ...
      »Darjlov: I think Tim is correct in his point of view. I play on a major team ...
      »mck71: I agree with a LOT of the points made here BUT the issue will ALWAYS ...
      »Softballjuny23: Ozzy#1 I agree. I played on a AAA team listed as a AAA team in Texas ...
      »Ozzy#1: Here's my point i'm trying to get across. If I play 3 (RR) games ...
      »Wizard of Oz: 2017 we finished the year 38-35 in a 50's Major.... we were 33-20 ...
24 May 14, 2019 2275
» Previous 20 discussions here
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