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Discussion: Brickyard Tournament Indianapolis

Posted Discussion
March 28, 2017
17Black
Men's 55
411 posts
Brickyard Tournament Indianapolis
Who all is attending this year?

CPOA/NOP Cleveland will be there in 55's
March 29, 2017
timmyb
27 posts
I'm pretty sure gem city merchants is scheduled for it in the major +
April 8, 2017
Grimmie
17 posts
Kluver's snap on tools will be playing 55's Major + hope weather is better than last year.
April 9, 2017
joe56
11 posts
Our 60 team was going to play but the 60 tourny starts on Thursday. Most of our team still works and we would have to use 3 days of vacation, poor scheduling if you ask me
April 20, 2017
199geek
7 posts
Steel City A's will be there. First venture as 55 Majors
May 2, 2017
17Black
Men's 55
411 posts
????? Am I reading the brackets and tournament rules correctly???????

Only one seeding game not two???----------that makes it a three game guarantee tournament. I swear when we originally saw the tournament posted a few months ago it was a (4) four game guarantee.

That being said, I've not always been a fan of two seeding games, although this week we are bringing a new pitcher I've never seen play, and I was going to see what he could do in a seeding game if we won the first one.-------it is what it is I guess to keep tourney on schedule?

Now I also see a note on the tournament board that says teams that only play 3 games "could" get a refund for the entry fee----------------which is good----- and better than nothing I guess.

As a sponsor the biggest fees for me (us) is the hotel rooms, there is chance teams get eliminated now on day one, and then its too late to cancel rooms or eat the $1000 a night???

I don't want to get back on the bandwagon for my 2016 posts about 100% chance of rain and the tournament should be cancelled before everybody gets there (last year IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN cancelled) Worst outfield conditions in 40 years of softball, and guys got injured horribly.

One guy out for two years, and another all of last season (not exaggerating).

This year the weather doesn't look any better, and colder for sure.

It doesn't look like its going to stop raining between now and Sunday according to forecast? Floods all over the Midwest.
May 2, 2017
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3827 posts
17Black ... Please read the Schedule Format Change note in the Session #2 schedule (pink priority) post ... That gives a thorough explanation of the rationale for change ... We tried to get teams to play Friday, but we were poor salesmen I guess! ... Not enough "takers" to accomplish the goal of getting out of 10:30 PM and Midnight games Saturday and 5:00 PM "If" games on Sunday ...

A couple of things ... You are STILL scheduled to play "weekend only", and that same structure in prior years has had teams departing on Saturday depending on how they play ... One thing is pretty constant: Winners' Bracket teams will be there Sunday and a lot of Elimination Bracket teams, too ...

Next year, this event will start on Friday afternoon/evening to take the schedule pressure off a bit ... Those teams that depart after only three games this time WILL (not "could") receive a $100 refund OR credit (at the sole option of the team) ... Good luck! ...

May 2, 2017
17Black
Men's 55
411 posts
Thank You Dave

May 4, 2017
17Black
Men's 55
411 posts
Are the 65's and 70's getting their game in?

Looks like a Monsoon/Deluge in Indianapolis on the weather channel right now ????

50/55/60's this weekend looks (to me) to be "bleak"

100% rain Friday--------Saturday looks promising, only 80%

Tournament Staff---------I know you have to make the game decisions on game day, but flash back to 2016, and watch the local flood reports please.------------The outfields at Midwest Complex do not drain well. There is nowhere for the water to go unless they installed a pumping system recently.

Make the right call ahead of time :-)

Thanks
May 4, 2017
57BLACK
Men's 60
15 posts
17BLACK YES SIR LAST YEAR PONDS ON THE INFIELD LAKE IN OUTFIELDS 65'S AN 70'S SENT HOME
May 4, 2017
Brownie
27 posts
17Black any word on Saturday or Sunday tournament?
May 4, 2017
SSUSA Staff
3225 posts
Session #1, Day #2 (Thursday) was rained out ... Weekend Session #2 is currently a go, but will likely depend on when the rain stops (projected for around 2:15 PM this afternoon at the complex) and resultant field conditions/recovery thereafter ... No play on Friday will help ... We will keep you posted ...
May 4, 2017
17Black
Men's 55
411 posts
I've been on the phone or email with not only my players but coaches from other teams in 50s and 55's--------------Everybody has indecision with what to do at this point, that I have been in contact with.

My guys have a 6 hour drive, another Ohio Team I just got off the phone with is a bunch of guys closer to Erie PA that have almost 7 hour drive.

I don't care what the weather forecast is--------I saw last year after it ONLY rained 8 hours on Saturday----------the outfield conditions worse I have ever seen----------------READ 57Blacks post above (he is not related to me LOL )

This year its already been raining for days.

There is nowhere at Midwest Sports Complex for the water to go, there is no pumping system to my knowledge.

After last year, with an ambulance carting away one of my guys who was laying in 3 or 4 inches of water with his leg bent in directions that it wasn't meant to bend------------I think the wise decision is to wash this out--------------

and that day (Sunday) was 82 and sunny out.

The paramedics couldn't even put their gear anywhere in 2016 on a SUNNY DAY, and all asked "why are you playing in this"????? couldn't get ambulance on field, couldn't put stretcher anywhere dry without pontoons.

^^^^^^^^^^ that is a comment that has been etched in my head for a year.

And not to mention Bob who got hurt still has 6 more months re-hab---------18 months total, the doc wont give him clearance to play.




May 4, 2017
17Black
Men's 55
411 posts
OK--------we just dropped out and cancelled hotel rooms. Had to do that before 4pm or else we had to pay.

I received phone calls and emails from (6) six different coaches in other ages and divisions (and ours) that told me they also just dropped out.

One quote from an opposing coaches relative, who lives near Indianapolis------"It is apparent that the conditions have turned near catastrophic"

I'm watching homes and 18 wheelers floating into bridges on TV from same storm----------that's enough for me.

Good Luck to all those who venture to Indy this weekend and PLEASE BE SAFE and use your heads wisely!!!!

"BE SAFE" in your travels and on the playing field!!!!!!
May 4, 2017
Brownie
27 posts
17black were teams from your division dropping?
May 4, 2017
17Black
Men's 55
411 posts
Brownie ------Yes, I know of one other team for sure in our division that backed out today.

I wasn't taking a poll LOL------six coaches from other teams, other states, (and a couple I have never spoken to ever before) took the liberty to call or email me and tell me their opinions on what they wanted to do this weekend.

It can rain at any tournament--------it has rained at many tournaments we've attended, & not usually a huge deal.

I have never dropped out of a tournament due to weather forecast, ever, until today.

I "think" this one is "that bad"

I'll probably get pics of players with sunburns and wives in bikini's this weekend???

If so, my guess is, its a tournament in Florida though???

May 4, 2017
17Black
Men's 55
411 posts
BTW, Brownie, I was looking forward to playing you this weekend!!! We had been playing Major for years, SSUSA reclassified us as AAA this year, we've seen you at MANY tournaments, very good team, have seen you play & a class outfit!!!

May 4, 2017
Brownie
27 posts
17black appreciate the info we are polling our guys now on what to do. I personally think it will be a wash and don't remember us ever pulling out either. I am hopeful the director will look at the reality of the situation and make the call. Five or six days of rain and to believe fields will be playable because the rain stopped is not reality and... thanks for the kind words.
May 5, 2017
CCVSC
2 posts
We have not had a totally dry day since April 26th, there has been 1.75 in. of rain in the last 24 hours. An additional 1-3 inches will be possible over the next 24 hours. Hopefully the director uses some common sense.
May 5, 2017
tscs000
Men's 60
33 posts
Go back and look at all the comments from last years Brickyard. It should have been cancelled last year. This year there has been even more rain. USSSA needs to step in if the local people won't and cancel this sooner than later.
May 5, 2017
Rich33
Men's 50
45 posts
50AAA Miken/CTA will be there. But how are the field conditions ???
Rained all week and forecast is for more rain today/tonite.
Any indications they will cancel ? Dont want to play in the slop again.

Rich#33
May 5, 2017
Rambrose13
7 posts
Yes, our team has been waiting and watching the weather for the area. There is no way our team will be playing in the conditions that we did last year, it was an absolute safety concern for all involved. I hope the site director is being honest with California directors, because if not, we will have a repeat of last year.

Thank you for the rain update CCVSC, I appreciate it.
May 5, 2017
Rich33
Men's 50
45 posts
As an UMPire, you are taught to do the right thing when weather comes into play. Safety is always first. Hope the TD's take into consideration. An UMPire can overrule the TD in this scenario. Last year, no games should have been played, PERIOD !!! No tourney is worth the money if players get injured due to "unplayable" field conditions. Yes, you sign a waiver, but lets use common sense here.
May 5, 2017
57BLACK
Men's 60
15 posts
WHEN MONEY IS INVOLVED COMMON SENCE AND SAFETY GO OUT THE DOOR
May 5, 2017
bullet
Men's 55
146 posts
17BLACK,can you e-mail me at topluap@aol.com. I am looking for some info on some NE OHIO players
May 5, 2017
SSUSA Staff
3225 posts
EMAIL STATUS UPDATE ON BRICKYARD INVITATIONAL • Sent to all participating teams from the SSUSA Home Office by Terry Hennessy ...
__________

To all players and managers of teams competing in the Brickyard Invitational in Indianapolis this weekend:

We are happy to inform you that the tournament is still very much on.

The field crews are working today and tonight to get the infields and warning tracks in playable condition and they are buying pumps to drain the low spots in the outfield. They are confident the fields will be in playable condition for tomorrow’s games.

Therefore, please be aware that our policy on refunds is that there is NO REFUND for any team pulling out of this tournament. The schedules have already been drawn. If teams pull out, we will be using those funds to reschedule the games for the remaining teams.

If your team has called to withdraw from this tournament, your manager has until 3:30 pm Indianapolis time (12:30 pm Pacific time) to notify our office that the team will be playing. Any team that has pulled out and does not notify our office that they will be playing by 3:30 Eastern time will be removed from the schedule and forfeit their entry fee.

May 5, 2017
17Black
Men's 55
411 posts
I would "love" to hear coaches or players comments on this situation after this weekend.

The temperatures alone, will break many senior bats this weekend (on top of hitting cold bats with wet balls) making losing the entry fee a mute point.

If there is anything even similar to last year (which at least was warm), everybody running this shin dig is crazy????

It was still raining this morning---------------

Good Luck to all who try to play, BE SAFE!!!!!!!!!

Don't be afraid to speak your minds about it either!!!!!!

May 5, 2017
CCVSC
2 posts
Absolutely no regard for the players and families, simply greed!
May 5, 2017
Sparky.1
Men's 75
284 posts
Don't know what they are looking at but it does not look good............

from the Weather Channel Forecast

Saturday – May 6th
Showers
36° with a high of 56°
Precipitation 90%
Wind NNW 17 mph

Saturday Night
Mostly Clear
with a low of 36°
Precipitation 10%
Wind NNW 16 mph

Sparky1
"the Rattlesnake" (just for Dave) [grins]
May 5, 2017
WizKid
7 posts
If anybody who played this tournament last year is at all surprised with this decision, shame on you. The fields last year were not playable. Period. And yet the TD posted a proud note of how they got the games in despite the weather, and this was AFTER some of the horrific injuries. Assuming they can find pumps available and hoses long enough to dump water in areas not in the field of play, maybe third base on one of the back fields won't be under 6 inches of water, with a pond spreading out ten feet in every direction. We have a picture from last year of a third baseman pointing out where a runner needed to step to find the base, as it was not visible. Running on the rest of the infield was like running on grease, and position players fell over just trying to move for the ground balls that did not stick in puddles. And yet they would not pull us off the field. Taking away surface water from a swamp does not mean it will no longer be a swamp. Good luck to all of the outfielders.
For those who don't believe this is all about the money (and NEVER giving any of it back), take a walk around the fields this weekend whether you are playing or have decided not to do so, and ask if your local leagues would ever have you play under such conditions. Your health and well-being are not even in the conversation, and neither is canceling the event. If only three teams show up they will have you play a one-pitch tournament on Sunday just to say the event was played as scheduled. No refunds.
The potential playing conditions also are making a side note out of the TD allowing the event to become oversubscribed, to the point that they had a last-minute effort to add Friday games. They knew ahead of time how many fields and game times they had available, but apparently never saw an entry fee they could turn down. This led to the Friday attempt, impossible for most teams at the last minute, and failing that scheduling games from dawn until midnight, assuming everything would be on schedule. We play in numerous events that are capped at the number of teams precisely to avoid these issues. Please don't respond that this oversubscription was done as a favor to all who wanted to play.
We do get to vote with our feet and money. Next year I will vote "no" on this event when our team picks out the 2018 tournaments. And for those who are concerned about injuries after signing a waiver, you never sign away rights against gross negligence. While there is the assumption of basic risk on our part, the people running the facilities and events must take reasonable care for safety. Good luck, and take lots of pictures.
May 5, 2017
17Black
Men's 55
411 posts
I am going to somewhat plagiarize another coaches personal comment to me:

But the fact that an established sports complex, is going to go out and buy or rent pumps (because obviously this doesn't happen often, otherwise they would already have pumps) to get the games in, tells me that normally there would be no intent to play the games at all.

I don't care if you ban me from the web-site, I am pulling our team out of ALL SSUSA events the remainder of this year, and will re-plan the season accordingly.

This is a kick off event for many Northern and Midwestern teams.

We all like to be competitive at our age, & softball is supposed to be "fun" though, and I know some softball lifers are going to have fun, regardless if you get hurt, wet, muddy or frostbit, break your $200 bats, or even turn around and go home, and that's fine with me.

My "guess" is many players this weekend who do indeed decide to play, are "probably" not going to have a lot of "fun"??

Speak Your Mind at the Managers Meetings tonight.

Again we have never pulled out of a tournament ahead of time due to weather, we'd like to play too.

After last years fiasco we are proudly NOT going to be there this weekend

Please, everybody who takes the field, PLEASE BE SAFE, that's all that matters!!!

GK/CPOA



May 5, 2017
SilverGhost
32 posts
I was kinda insulted when i got todays email that this tournament was still on. Talk about greed and insulting a mans intelligence.
May 5, 2017
SSUSA Staff
3225 posts
WEEKEND REVISIONS COMPLETE • Schedule revisions required by the premature withdrawal of eight teams have been completed and are available online from both this Message Board thread and the event tournament page of this website ... Those who attended the Manager Check-in and Meeting this evening were greeted to mostly sunny skies, a light breeze and the Beach Volleyball league ongoing at the complex ... Looks to be a great weekend of softball ... Good luck everyone!
May 5, 2017
Rick35
Men's 50
76 posts
SSUSA Staff...you need to update the 50's brackets and game times...
May 5, 2017
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3827 posts
Rick35 ... Refresh your download ... The current version is dated 05/05/2017 and is the one I just re-downloaded ... Your device is storing the previous post ...
May 5, 2017
SSUSA Staff
3225 posts
From the No Good Deed Goes Unpunished file • Another team (Central Illinois Chiefs) left an email late Friday afternoon in an unattended email inbox rather than calling the office to advise that they, too, had withdrawn from the tournament ... Revisions to the 55-Major Division were required and have been made and posted online ... Good luck everyone! ...
May 6, 2017
57BLACK
Men's 60
15 posts
THANK YOU SSUSA I DONOT REMEMBER GETTING CALLS LAST YEAR AT 2 OR 3 TOURNAMENTS THAT WERE RAIN DELAYED YOUR EMAIL WAS SENT TO A UNATTENDED EMAIL INBOX MY EMAIL WAS SENT TO YOU AT INFO@SENIORSOFTBALL.COM WHICH IS ON THE WEBSITE AT 12:52 YOUR TIME THANK YOU I GUESS WE WILL GET IN THE TO BE PUNISHED LINE
May 6, 2017
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3827 posts
No problem 57BLACK ... Two people in the SSUSA office check the "info" email periodically during the day ... Yesterday one of them left at noon for a personal commitment and the other has been out of the office all week on vacation, so I guess we could start with any punishment being internal! ... Maybe we all get too complacent in this technology realm when we confuse simply sending an email with actually contacting someone ... The phones still work pretty well for communication of important information in the final analysis! ...

As an update on the tournament, play is underway and on time under very good conditions ... Kudos to the field crew professionals at Midwest for an exceptional job of getting ready ... Two more teams were unannounced no-shows this morning ... One fit into the "email to the temporarily unattended inbox" scenario (despite having confirmed their attendance in another email at 8:00 PM Thursday) and the other manager says he deputized a player on his team to call, but the player didn't ... The multiple changes and restructuring required by these latest defections are being handled marvelously by the on site Directors, and too fast to be efficiently updated here ... Check with them for the latest game and bracket sequencing ...

One additional thought to ponder: If there's ever a "Tournament Director's Textbook" published, this Brickyard Invitational will be the perfect case study illustration of why we have the policy that all "play/no-play" decisions are made at the fields at game time unless there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary, which was not the case here ... That's much more reliable in yielding a wise decision than canceling based on a forecast ... Ten teams "bought" into the hysteria of panic initiated and advanced principally by one team, while the other 30± teams are playing softball right now ... To the teams actually participating, have fun and good luck! ...

May 6, 2017
WizKid
7 posts
Dave, obviously you are not at the fields. Teams have dropped out because of current conditions, with assessments made on-site. The claim was made at the managers' meeting that the fields were in perfect condition, and they had two pallets of diamond dry to put down in the morning. If the fields were already perfect and the skies were sunny, why would they need to do anything more? The staff member who contributed the bit above about the beautiful weather and beach volleyball last night left out the field conditions, the most important part. And as we did not intend to play beach volleyball, which only lightning will stop, I'm not sure how that helps. But in my mind, I could almost hear the crickets and bullfrogs in the background, but for being drowned out by water pumps.

When you are writing your self-congratulatory case study for the Tournament Director's Textbook, perhaps you should state the conditions under which a game (or heaven forbid, an entire tournament) would actually be canceled. What constitutes "overwhelming evidence"? Last year we played through torrential rain for the final four innings of a game, in the seeding round no less. Players on the infield could not move without slipping and falling, and the runners had a worse time. When the rain stopped some of the bases were no longer visible because of the surrounding lakes. There was enough standing water in the outfield for small craft advisories. And yet we played. On Sunday the weather was gorgeous, sunny and 82 degrees. The outfields still had standing water, and the infields were still slick. And yet we played. The ambulance first responders could not even put their stretcher on the outfield grass because of the water late in the day on Sunday, as they carted away a player whose injuries were directly attributable to the conditions. The driver had planned to pull the truck onto the field, but if he had done so it would still be there. Really, what would the conditions need to be in order to cancel games? Even hurricanes end with dazzlingly bright blue skies, but it can take years to put the land back to the way we want it and make it useful again.

At least ten teams made what they believe to be a "wise decision" to eat their financial losses and not risk injuries. And yet we are again (see last year) treated to the arrogant, defiant and taunting messages from our employees. You work for us, not the other way around. It is painfully obvious that no lessons were learned by our employees last year, but as teams who very much do want to play we learned a lot about the decision-making ability of the Brickyard director. There was no mass hysteria and panic this year, or one team convincing all others to stay away. We made rational decisions based on current information and past experience. We decided that playing a handful of games over one weekend was not worth the much-increased odds of being injured due to poor playing conditions. For you to state otherwise is wrong. For the teams that have decided to play, good luck and stay safe.
May 6, 2017
timmyb
27 posts
I played in this last year , fields weee terrible , I was expecting the same today , probably the best fields I've played on , I couldn't believe it ..... even with the rain this morning ...... now we do have some ponds in the outfield ..... I must say the complex did a fantastic job
Timmy b gem city merchants
May 6, 2017
17Black
Men's 55
411 posts
I was going to take the high road and stay away from this topic, until the above post.

timmyb--> "the ponds in the outfield" is/was/always will be, the entire point.

So thanks for that!!!! If that's the "best fields" you have played on, you must not be an outfielder, or your home complex needs desperate drainage help?

timmyb you guys have a very nice team, we've played against you guys a few times over the last couple years, & I am not mad at you or your post. WE WANTED to PLAY, but our circumstances, our travel time, and OUR BUDGET, to decide to cancel hotels before we had to pay for them will hopefully allow us to play later this season in another tournament somewhere.

But ask my guy, who racked up almost $100K in hospital bills last year,(NO EXAGERATION AT ALL) & who was floating immobile "in a pond" waiting for 30 minutes for an ambulance, that could not get a stretcher on the field, on a sunny 82 degree day (with his leg bent the wrong direction)--------

Had this injury not occurred (and another just on our team)----shoot, (actually there were 3 three injuries on our team due to mud & slippage last year) we would have made the trek this weekend. But it did happen, and everybody including opposing teams (or teams waiting to play) has remembered.

THANK YOU for all the kind words we have received for that over the past year!

Dave, sorry to cause "Hysteria of Panic"-------that's a great quote by the way----thanks for that-------however there was a lot---A LOT--- of dialogue between coaches from many age divisions and states, off line, to try to make the best decisions for "their team" I had three coaches "call or email me" before I ever posted anything. More coaches contacted me later. More today on Saturday.

We ALL knew (as did others) dropping out would cause us to eat the entry fee, that's the rules and that fine, & understood, so we move forward!!!

Good Luck to all who are playing

GK/CPOA Cleveland Softball/
Master of "Hysteria and Panic"
May 6, 2017
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3827 posts
WizKid ... You guys staying at home for the Brickyard Boycott missed a great day of softball ... Look at how horrible the conditions are! ... Maybe next year will be better?? ...



May 6, 2017
Dbax
Men's 65
2021 posts
Hey Dave. Please show me how to post pics! I have all kinds of great ideas!
May 6, 2017
WizKid
7 posts
Dave...Regarding your comment about next year: You mean they might have the standing water out of the outfields by then? And the really swampy areas might be dry? Or maybe we can just play with all infielders and go back to our grade school days when we had such rules as "anything to right field is an automatic out". We could make it off limits to hit the ball onto the grass or toward the ponds. I don't think I can add much more to what the Master of Hysteria and Panic has stated. As an outfielder who has been through a knee reconstruction with a wonderful surgeon and a fantastic physical therapist I would not wish that upon anybody (special shout out also to the cadaver for the spare part). If you don't understand our concerns after what occurred last year under similar "playing" conditions then I don't know what to say. Not only do we have unsafe outfields, but we have onsite people who have a well-documented track record of making poor decisions when it comes to our safety.

Nobody can control the weather; it is the response to it that shows your true character, and you have done that in spades. There was no organized boycott; we all wanted to play, and we knew that we would be out some money if we chose not to do so. Each team made the decision right for it, after careful consideration and input from all involved. Instead of just accepting the fact that some of us chose not to play for well-grounded safety concerns, you have done your best to turn our individual choices into some kind of orchestrated group effort that is being taken as a personal affront. If you were at the complex last night or this morning you could have walked the outfields yourself and seen that they would be a safety hazard today, no matter what the weather or infields looked like. And then you could have changed out of your soaking wet socks and shoes instead of wearing them all day like the players. By definition our ages put us legally as adults, and we made informed decisions that are in our best interests. Life goes on. But it is kind of funny that the only people acting as adults here are those that are paying a lot of money to play a kids' game.
May 6, 2017
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3827 posts
WizKid ... The proof of the wisdom, or lack thereof, in proceeding with any event is in the conditions every year as evaluated prior, during and after the tourney ... Last year we failed collectively in managing those conditions at the Brickyard ... This year we haven't, but for some reason that seems to really annoy you ... You just gambled wrong on whether or not to attend this year ... Maybe last year too, who knows? ...

But here's a constant: The issues of travel distance, likelihood of play and cost budget for same, is present in every tournament you may choose to enter, with any association ... That's simply the nature of travel ball ... Most times the teams win ... Once in a while Mother Nature wins, but not this year so far ...

Your decision to pass on this one is solely yours, and we have no criticism ... The flip side of that same coin is you may be called out when you anonymously, and with disregard to the facts, criticize us for proceeding, and successfully thus far, when conditions were as favorable as they were today ... You demean the impressive efforts of the Midwest crew AND the onsite SSUSA Director, who is in his first year being assigned to Indy ... We wish your team, whoever they are, had been here ... But you're not, which certainly diminishes, or eliminates, the credibility of your factually deficient assertions ...

May 6, 2017
WizKid
7 posts
Dave...I think the best thing you did or said today was coming up with the Master of Hysteria and Panic title. I appreciate that even if it was intended to put the blame on one individual for 10 or more teams deciding not to play, which is not the case.


I did not gamble on the weather or field conditions; guys I have played with and against for years and whose judgment I trust were at the fields after the managers' meeting, and they emphatically said the conditions in the outfield were and would be unsafe. The gamble to me would have been playing. I would much rather lose money on the front end than be mad at myself for playing if I got hurt. Again, you have not walked in the outfields, and standing water on them today is safe how??? Last year I did play through Sunday's championship game, and for a nice red softball cap I took too big a risk. Although it was not my game, I did get to be the first one to tell the ambulance driver not to take his vehicle on the swampy field, and he looked at me like I was some kind of a moron until his partner ran up and told him the same thing. Our team took a vote this year, and I actually said I would go with what the team decided, with the caveat that if at any time we thought the fields were not playable we would walk.

I also am fully aware that weather is always a factor, whether the event is across the country or in my backyard. No matter the distance, if I am at the field and it is not safe to play then the expenses that can't be recouped would have no bearing on my decision to sit it out, no matter what the on-site official had to say about the conditions.

I certainly can appreciate the efforts of the people on-site to do the best they can to make the fields playable, and I don't believe I have made any remarks about their efforts at all. Having been involved with baseball and softball for almost my entire life I have always made a point out of thanking the people who drag and line the fields, put out the bases etc., and in my coaching days I moved a lot of sand, raked a lot of infields and got filthy from using giant sponges to make them playable. It does not change the FACT that there was still standing water in the outfields today and some areas were like swamps. The fields simply can't take that much water over a short period of time and be playable, meaning SAFE and not increasing the normal risks to players. Time and good weather are the only factors that can change the outfields from where they are now.

Please let me know where I have misstated any facts. Standing water and swamp-like conditions in the outfield today, playing last year in torrential downpours with large infield ponds to the point that the bases were not visible, the tournament director posting on this board on how proud he/she was of getting the games in despite the fact that there were serious injuries, etc. Let me know the errors.

You are correct in my criticism that you are proceeding with playing games on fields with standing water. When there are adverse playing conditions that pose increased risks to the players the games should not be played until those risks are eliminated. If that means canceling games or a tournament that I have already spent a lot of time and effort to be at, so be it. Does success in your mind mean nobody got badly hurt despite the poor conditions, or that "we got the games in despite people telling us the fields were not playable", or what? And per a question I asked earlier, at what point would you ever say the fields were not playable?

I'm not sure how my credibility is diminished by not being there today. The players that are there already have stated there was still standing water in the outfields during their games. My presence or lack thereof does not change that FACT. Your absence from the fields does not change it either. And I am not annoyed that the tournament is proceeding without me. If they did not cancel it with the conditions and injuries experienced last year it never will be canceled. For those teams voting on pulling out who had hopes of getting their money back I was emphatic that it would never happen, and if that was a factor in their decision so be it.

What does annoy me is the continual bashing of those who chose not to play. Rather than just stating the tournament was downsized due to withdrawals, the teams were labeled as those who "prematurely withdrew" ("prematurely" implies that there was also a better time to withdraw later on). Using the words "hysteria and panic" to describe the carefully considered decisions of individual teams is quite demeaning. The blame was even incorrectly put on one team for organizing a "Brickyard boycott". The writer of all of these is insulting our intelligence and decision making ability. He is supposed to be the voice of leadership, and engaging in these practices greatly diminishes any credibility he may have had. And condoning teams playing a tournament with standing water in the outfields, ESPECIALLY after what happened at this very tournament last year, is so absurd it is incredulous to me.

Again, if I have any of the facts wrong please let me know. And while my TEAM voted to pass on the event, my opinions are just that, and not meant to reflect on my team or anybody other than myself. Feel free to look me up in your records, and I will be more than happy to re-introduce myself to you at a future event. I will always be happy to discuss anything directly with you. While you certainly don't agree with what I have stated, I believe all of the facts to be correct. Nothing is intended to be personal. I have simply passed the stage in my life where if I see a giant puddle I need to make a big splash, and am more concerned with the outcomes and risks involved in running through it. And I don't wish to be mocked and attacked in any way for making a logical decision, especially by those who should know better.

On another topic, now that you have shown it is possible to post pictures on this site when it suits you, how about taking pictures of the updated brackets at major events and posting them at the end of each day? You were able to take a picture sent to you from Indy and post it, so we really should be able to see all of the tournament results, even those with multiple locations such as Las Vegas. Just a thought!
May 7, 2017
timmyb
27 posts
To all , I do not have a dog in this fight , I'm only stating the fields ( which I would have bet $ on would not be playable ) were not only playable , but were actually excellent ..... as fast as the outfield , yes we had a few spots with standing water , which iis no different than than any other tournament I've played in over the years ....... my only complaint is we played against a 55 team out of illionois ( I think ) that hit the crud out of the ball ...... shouldnt they give it up by now and give us younger guys a chance ....:)
May 7, 2017
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3827 posts
• WizKid ... You seem to need the "last word" (or 1,180± of them), so we'll just let that happen! .. Good luck the rest of the Season ...
• timmyb ... Good luck today and thanks for showing up ...
• Dbax ... No way, no how! ... We've seen some of your "great ideas" over the years! [grins]
May 8, 2017
BH44
Men's 50
62 posts
Like to thank Mike and ground crew at Midwest Sports Complex for the outstanding job that was done this weekend on those fields. Hard to believe you guys got all that rain. Great tournament like the BBQ truck - thank again!
May 8, 2017
missouridave
Men's 60
165 posts
For my buddy Dave Dowell. I am not going to get into the discussion about weather or field conditions on this one. However, I will explain why my team has chosen to stop attending the Indy tourney. It is not a difficult travel for our team from St. Louis. Fields are fine. Umpires have been good. We stopped attending because there are simply too many teams. Not very often is that a problem at senior tournaments. The last time we attended our first game of the day was so early we were under the lights and our last SCHEDULED game was at like 9 or 9:30. I told Dave when he was there that year that in my opinion this tournament needs to find a bigger complex, another complex for one of the age groups or to limit the number of teams. It appears if not for the weather this year, that nothing has changed. It is my opinion that for us seniors we should not be playing under the lights. We have a hard enough time seeing during the daylight hours let alone under less than perfect lighting. Let's be honest, most of the complexes we play at do not have the best lighting. So Dave, I would once again say that you should consider one of the above options. I would think it would also make your scheduling task a little easier.
Cheers. Missouri Dave
May 8, 2017
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3827 posts
Thanks Dave ... Much appreciate, as always, your comments pro and/or con ... Next year, the Men's 50's and 55's will begin on Friday afternoon/evening to hopefully eliminate the late night play ... That will give a lot more scheduling flexibility for the teams AND for me ... Although I DID get a lot of re-scheduling practice this past weekend as the defections mounted almost by the hour! ... Hope to see you guys soon, and good luck along the way! ...
May 8, 2017
kid 32
21 posts
I was skeptical on Friday like many others. After playing on Saturday and Sunday in the Brickyard, I'm glad we played. The fields were in very good condition, the outfields were a little wet Saturday morning(not unplayable by any means) but by the start of the double elimination they were just fine. Fields were even better on Sunday. Good job by the Park staff to get the fields ready! Bottom line: I understand the concern before the tournament but if you're team dropped out and your guys were hungry to play, then you missed a good weekend to play. The weather was plenty warm enough as well.
May 9, 2017
Rick35
Men's 50
76 posts
What are the results of the weekend tourney??
May 9, 2017
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3827 posts
Rick35 ... We don't know yet here in Sacramento ... With the multiple re-writes done on-site Saturday on an almost hourly basis to cover the defections, we're not sure what the final schedules even looked like! ... The Directors were under deadline Sunday to get to FedEx Office in time to ship surplus softballs to Loudoun County, VA, and other "stuff" here, so we'll just wait until later in the week to review it all ... Best guesstimate is sometime next week for updates ...

Thanks, again, to all of the teams that bought into the proven concept of SSUSA's policy of making all "play/no-play decisions" at the fields of play at game time ... Your confidence was rewarded with a fine weekend of softball! ...

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