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Discussion: BJ

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Nov. 16
stick8

1994 posts
BJ, I only know the usssa rule. To answer your question: if the ump signaled and verbally indicated obstruction that runner is awarded at least one base beyond the base he last legally touched before the obstruction.(This is where I believe Wayne is correct) The ump also awards the runner all other advanced bases that in his judgement the runner would have made had no obstruction occurred.
All along, the play is still live and if the runner continues beyond the base awarded by the obstruction he then becomes in jeopardy, as are all other runners.
As stated this is usssa so that runner would be awarded second at the conclusion of play. I’m fairly certain it’s similar in other organizations. You might be able shed some light in ssusa.
It’s an interesting rule to study.
Nov. 16
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1438 posts
stick8, I respectfully disagree. I will use an example of my thought. I have obstruction, delayed dead ball signaled. The runner starts to break for 2B and goes about 12'. He turns around and runs back to 1B because the ball is close. I have him protected to 1B. If he gets tagged there before getting back to 1B, he is safe in my judgement unless there is any other strong evidence against that in what I observe. People always ask in obstruction if they get the next base. They do not; it is not an awarded situation. It is only in the umpire's judgement (which at times might be questionable for any of us) what base the runner is protected to.
Nov. 16
coop3636

515 posts
Miss Nancy
I have to add a few things.
BJ,if obstruction is signaled, the runner never becomes in jeopardy because the umpire can not tell which base , in his opinion, that the baserunner would have reached until the play is OVER. so no base is awarded yet.

Nancy, Just to clarify, the runner ONLY gets the next base (or further) if he continues to the next base in question. If he goes back to the base where the obstruction occurred, he will not be awarded any other base. He has to continue to make the attempt to the next base to be even considered in getting it awarded to him.
Coop3636
PS, he/him refers to baserunners... before someone starts to politically correct me...lol
Nov. 16
Garocket
Men's 55
259 posts
The ASA or USA softball now. The rule is you cannot ever be put out between the bases that you were obstructed between. the umpire can awarded a runner the base the umpire thought he could have made without the obstruction.

Example: runner rounds first and is obstructed by the 1st baseman and is thrown out by 5 steps going into second the umpire does not think he could have made it to second he would be placed at 1st. if only thrown out by 1 or 2 steps then umpire could award him 2nd base.
Nov. 16
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1438 posts
Coop, I always like talking softball with you. In my scenario if he had continued to 2B, I would most likely have had him out. With 58 feet to go, proceeding to 2B is not the best decision even with obstruction. I had him safe back to 1B if tagged.

I don't know if you saw my post about Johnny G. He passed recently and is how I got into umpiring. I learned a lot from Johnny because I didn't always agree with his methods which is what got me into umpiring (a good adult beverage tale). If the ball beat the runner, the runner was always out even if the runner was clearly in contact with the bag...vicinity. Of course the best part was his comment which you will never catch me saying. "You are out, and you are stupid for going the extra base." You had to love him though.

Neck10, yes, that was the umpire in the gate incident. You were his last senior softball game. He said that he had it after that one.

Garocket, I will pull my USA Softball rulebook. I do not remember a rule change, but my memory is not what it used to be.
Nov. 16
B.J.

1113 posts
stick8.. you are correct in U-Trip on the OBS rule I haven't worked it in several years but still have up to date rules just in case I choose to.. here is the U-Trip rule..
see how easy this was.. no he said she said... here's the rule read it...lol

U-TRIP RULE
Sec. 7. BASE RUNNERS ARE ENTITLED TO ADVANCE WITHOUT LIABILITY TO BE PUT OUT:

E. When he is obstructed by a fielder between the bases or as he rounds a base, unless the fielder is trying to field a batted ball, or had the ball in his possession
ready to tag the runner.
EFFECT Sec. 7. E. The obstructed runner shall be awarded at least one base beyond the base he had last legally touched before the obstruction. The umpire should also award the runner all other advanced bases that he believes the runner would have made, had no obstruction occurred, without waiting for an appeal from the offensive team. If the runner continues beyond
the base awarded by the obstruction, he then becomes in jeopardy. The ball remains live with all other runners in jeopardy, except any preceding runners, forced by the award for obstruction, shall advance without liability to be put out to the base which they are awarded.

on the USA/ASA & SSUSA rule I thought I already did shed some light on it..lol.. I posted the rule several times and you can see how the wording is different.. no where does it state that the batter shall be awarded at least one base beyond the base he had last legally touched before the obstruction... what it says is the award will be umpire judgement which may end being no advancement reward at all

I have no problem with anyone disagreeing on a rule interpretation that I give.. we all make mistakes.. (oops that is except 1 person) but PLEAAASEEE don't just disagree cite the rule or post the rule and MAKE SURE IT'S FROM THE SSUSA RULE BOOK

Nov. 16
B.J.

1113 posts
coop 3636.. I half agree with you.. yes the base award (if any) would be made after the play is complete and time has been called.. but the runner can be in jeopardy if he proceeds further than what the umpire judged he would make safely.. as in the umpires judgement had him protected to 2nd but the runner tried to make 3rd and was tagged out.. he is in jeopardy for going to 3rd and therefore out on the tag

coop..also a runner does not have to make any attempt to advance to the next base after OBS is called.. he may turn and go back to the last base he legally touched.. then after the play is complete and time is called the umpire would award him any advancement of base or bases if any he judged the runner would have made if OBS had not occurred

coop lol on the he/she for politically correct.. when I have my umpires clinics I always start out with a BIG apology to the ladies at the clinic and tell them my male chauvinism will be saying "he" all day
Nov. 16
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1438 posts
BJ, spot on as usual. I am sorry if I didn't pick the rules out that you posted, but with all of the "static" in that thread, I think that it is understandable. I am here to learn and educate not to fight like "a girl".

The rules always say He because we girls never make those mistakes base running or fielding...really. ;-)
Nov. 16
B.J.

1113 posts
Garocket.. I'm going to have to half agree with you also..

you are correct.. you posted (you cannot ever be put out between the bases that you were obstructed between. the umpire can award a runner the base the umpire thought he could have made without the obstruction)

but if the runner tries to make 2nd and is tagged out and in the umpires judgement he would have not made it safely then he is out, he does not get awarded back to 1B.. the only time he would be protected back to 1st was if he rounded the bag and then OBS was called and he was then tagged out trying to return to 1B




Nov. 16
B.J.

1113 posts
Nancy...lol .. I know my wife tells me she never makes mistakes all the time.. then I remind her ummm you married me
Nov. 16
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1438 posts
BJ, so she potentially made one mistake? I do make mistakes, but I try to use those as learning opportunities. I have no problem admitting when I make one. I emphasize to my umpires to be approachable. I also encourage them to do coed league games because if something odd is going to happen, you will see it there. I tell them if they are learning and make a call that they are not sure of to look it up afterwards to learn what is correct, also to talk about it with us old "guys". It is better to boot it there than in a major tournament later.
Nov. 16
stick8

1994 posts
BJ, the difference I see in ssusa and usssa is in ssusa the umpire awards the base or bases he or she (hi Nancy) feels the runner could have obtained without the obstruction whereas in usssa the runner will get at least one base (or more according to umpire judgement) beyond the last base he previously touched before the obstruction.
Using your scenario where the shortstop booted the ball just a few feet away:
In ssusa he’d be at first because I can’t imagine any umpire thinking he could obtain second on an shortstop boot a few feet away.
In usssa he would automatically get second
Is that about right?
Nov. 16
stick8

1994 posts
Nancy, what you describe is correct for ssusa.
I was in usssa mode!!
Nov. 16
B.J.

1113 posts
stick.. yes.. exactly.. there is no automatic award of 1 base in SSUSA when OBS is called
Nov. 16
Wayne 37
Men's 65
773 posts
This is so simple to understand, but BJ and Nanny come along and mess everyone up with their inane ramblings. I explained this to them in terms in hope they might actually learn. That's why threads get closed so often.

SSUSU rulebook leaves much to be desired in it's verbiage which causes some of the problems.

I take note of their cheap shots because at the end of the day that's all they have. However, I know when I'm right.
Nov. 17
B.J.

1113 posts
wayne.. this is a SSUSA senior softball web site if you disagree with a ruling just post the "SSUSA" rule and show us we are wrong.. it's that easy..
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