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Discussion: TOC WINNERS

Posted Discussion
Feb. 5, 2023
Rob64
Men's 50
209 posts
TOC WINNERS
Since TOC is the best against the best do Winners move up in classification?
Feb. 7, 2023
mck71
Men's 60
344 posts
As best I know and have seen, they do not except the teams that won in Vegas, they are allowed to compete at the level they won before moving up.
Feb. 7, 2023
Rob64
Men's 50
209 posts
Thanks for the reply mck71 . So a team can win TOC and not move in Classification if I'm understanding your reply only Vegas matters.
Feb. 7, 2023
Rob64
Men's 50
209 posts
I was just curios, I see several teams that were moved up after Vegas and dropped back down in December back to their original classification and did well or won @ TOC. wasn't sure how this works.
Feb. 7, 2023
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4306 posts
The statement "..only Vegas matters.." isn't completely accurate. There is an emphasis on Las Vegas, but the team's entire body of work over the Season, EXCEPT for the Original T.O.C., is considered. That event is a prior year event where the teams compete at the rating level they had at the time they earned their bid.
Feb. 7, 2023
HSquared
Men's 60
147 posts
D², since your mentioned "body of work", is every team reviewed at end of year for this "body of work" criteria? And if so, is there a weighting system (i.e. 1st, 2nd, 3rd place finishes vs. the number of teams entered)?

Why, you ask? .... I HATE the color, GRAY !! And yet, if GRAY is a warranted color, I can somewhat live with it, as long as it is consistent across the board....
Feb. 7, 2023
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4306 posts
H² ... Yes, every team is evaluated (twice) annually ... We generate a "rating book" that includes every game played by every team in SSUSA sanctioned play ... That data is categorized, and analyzed, for performance vs. teams of the same age and rating as well as vs. other ages and ratings ... The analysis also includes performance in [1] seeding games, [2] bracket games before the finals and [3] Championship (including "If") games ... Tourney wins and Runner-up finishes are noted ...

The criteria we define for this extensive analysis is propietary and not a public access/disclosure formula ... The report generally runs several hundred (300-400) pages and the output is color coded for which teams we may want to look at more closely, for both upward and downward moves ... We do not use the color gray in the report ... Gray is a special color we reserve for just the hair color of the (strong) majority of our players who still have hair ...

Feb. 7, 2023
HSquared
Men's 60
147 posts
TY, for the well detailed response. Much appreciated.

The better response given, is that, to the color gray.... lol Thanks again.
Feb. 7, 2023
Rob64
Men's 50
209 posts
None of the statements made are completely accurate. What's the original TOC? So just about he original question you have to win throughout the year to qualify for the TOC so your a proven winner in your class , then you win the TOC or place (Best of the Best) you still remain in your class? No Gray Area!
Feb. 7, 2023
Rob64
Men's 50
209 posts
No to the top Question is what I'm hearing.
Feb. 7, 2023
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4306 posts
“Since TOC is the best against the best do Winners move up in classification?”

No


The Original Tournament of Champions is a prior-season event, after the year end-rating adjustments have been made. Maybe a good analogy would be to consider it as an “exhibition” tourney rewarding teams that had a reasonable level of success during the previous season ... Since teams compete in the TOC at the level they were rated when they won their bid, many of them HAVE already been moved up and thjose rating will be re-adjusted this week ... The Original Tournament of Champions is called that in order to differentiate ours from a tournament with the almost identical name that a smaller regional association started nearly ten years after the SSUSA event commenced ... They plagiarized (took the work or an idea of someone else and passed it off as their own) the SSUSA T.O.C., used the same T.O.C. acronym (although we have been told their’s has a different meaning), dropped it in the same geographic area and scheduled it in the same general date range ...

Feb. 7, 2023
JohnO28
Men's 50
99 posts
Dave,

You're not suggesting that SSUSA coined the phrase TOC for tournament of champions are you?
Feb. 7, 2023
HSquared
Men's 60
147 posts
D², did I read correctly in your last statement, that the end of the ratings' adjustments are not yet complete, and that additional re-rates will be forthcoming this week?
Feb. 7, 2023
Rob64
Men's 50
209 posts
Not interested in another associations TOC not sure why it should even be mentioned here doesn't effect our ratings.

Thanks for the reply I didn't understand the TOC was like winning the Super Bowl then playing the regular season games.
Feb. 7, 2023
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4306 posts
JohnO28 ... No, we did not coin that phrase ... We DID however, apply it first to this type of Senior Softball event ... The plagiarizing occurred in the smaller regional association stealing our entire T.O.C. softball tournament concept ... As Oscar Wilde noted in his famous quote: "..Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.."

H² ... Nope ... For those teams that were “down-rated” for the TOC ONLY to reflect their rating at the time they won their bid, they will be moved back up to their 2023 season rating this week ...

Feb. 7, 2023
Rob64
Men's 50
209 posts
Should be very flattered 88 teams to 169!
Feb. 9, 2023
Hank Heffner
11 posts
Rob64. One is a true TOC the other is an Invitational Tournament. They have some Champions but also have teams that have played in one tournament and went 0-4. Thats not a TOC.
Feb. 10, 2023
softball4b
Men's 70
1247 posts
This is not a best of the best tournament. Rosters are a little more fluid. I view it as a celebration tourney. Enjoy the experience.
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