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Discussion: Are you serious.

Posted Discussion
Feb. 28, 2018
Hail Ragna!
Men's 55
40 posts
Are you serious.
I have to laugh when players actually think that heat treating, Cyogenics, and the other ideas they have are ways of making their bat that much better. You either never played any good ball in your life if you have to do anything additional to a Senior bat. When I hear of players shaving their bats it makes me wonder. Why would you want to play ball after 50 if you have to alter the equipment. I would quit on the spot if I had to do that. That's it. Bottom line. I am not hitting the ball like I used to when I played USSSA in Oregon and Washington. So I will either be satisfied with where I am at or quit on the spot... Guess what I am done with slo-pitch. I just bought a new sailboat and will do that instead of shaving my bat. I never shaved my bats but I can see where Senior softball is headed. Sorry Dave for the negative post but it gets old listening to these guys complain... So instead of heat treating my bat I am going go heat treat some young lady who appreciates a sugar daddy!

Hail Ragna!
Feb. 28, 2018
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3827 posts
Thanks, Hail ... If you and I are are going to have an argument, you're just going to have to pick a different topic ... We agree on this ... There are simply a lot of things none of us do as well as we used to, except maybe complain about the effects of aging! ...
Feb. 28, 2018
COWBOYJIMMY
Men's 50
49 posts
I hate to get on here and leave negative post myself and I have a tendency not to but when somebody else gets on here that can't read and comprehend what is going on then he needs to go sailing but I ordered the bat I told a friend of mine to get me a bat the guy that sent it took it on his self to heat treat it I did not know what heat treated was until 5 days ago the bat will be in Birmingham Saturday playing ball y'all two can bring y'alls tester and test this bat to see if it is illegal!!! Period!!!
Feb. 28, 2018
SSUSA Staff
3225 posts
Be very careful, COWBOY JIMMY, in how you proceed/post from here ... SSUSA is VERY adamant on the concept of prohibiting the use of altered bats, and that's not going to change ... To refresh your recall of the two other threads where you have participated as a poster:

You have publicly admitted to meeting one half of the definition of owning an altered bat by disclosing that some sort of "heat" treatment was applied post-production to the bat ... That is a prohibited activity;
IF you meet the second half of the definition ("..AND which serves to alter the technical specifications and performance of that bat from what it was immediately after coming off the production line.."), you absolutely own an altered bat;
We are troubled by your apparent challenge to our bat safety rules because it's OK for your bat since [1] you only found out about it five days ago, [2] you are setting up a "catch me if you can" scenario, and [3] you seem to think it's also OK because you're not a home run hitter ... We do not accept the premise that the user/owner of an altered bat who now has achieved his new-found range of being an "outfield grass" type hitter is any different from the power hitter guy doing the same thing ...

Your "best-case" scenario right now is to discover that some clever bat agent duped you into overpaying for something that does NOT enhance performance ... At least you have the result of being only a salesman's victim rather than being a bat cheater (which, not so coincidentally, is your "worst-case" scenario) ...

Feb. 28, 2018
COWBOYJIMMY
Men's 50
49 posts
I was not talking like Catch Me If You Can I was talkin bring your bat tester to the game test the bat
test it every time I play if it ever exceeds the limitations on the compression on that bat I will destroy it I do not need a senior bat
Feb. 28, 2018
TimMcElroy
842 posts
This isn't my quote, but it certainly applies in this situation:

"Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking.
There are too many people who think that what's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught."
J.C. Watts
Feb. 28, 2018
DCPete
407 posts
Would rather hear more about the "heat-treated" young lady . . .
Feb. 28, 2018
Omar Khayyam
1352 posts
Cowboy Jimmy, I don't think you are hearing SSUSA correctly on this issue. If you bring your "heat-treated" bat to a tournament and use it and then find it fails the testing, it doesn't just mean the bat is destroyed. It means you lose your reputation, you risk being banned from tournaments for years, you jeopardize your team manager and any teammates that used your bat, especially if you told them it was heat-treated.

It is evident from your earlier posts that you are a Christian. It isn't just losing an expensive bat and learning a lesson. It is losing your testimony and future playing enjoyment in the tournaments you find well-run and fun.

By SSUSA rules, the bat is illegal. Whether testing "hotter" or not, it is illegal. Don't take a chance on your witness as a Christian. That is worth far, far more than a bat.
Feb. 28, 2018
COWBOYJIMMY
Men's 50
49 posts
Thanks Omar!! I have already called the bat guy and he is sending me another one overnight and I am to put this bat in the box and send it back to him so somebody else will just get that bat!! There is more than one way to skin a cat
Feb. 28, 2018
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3827 posts
Of course, you're going to drill a couple of holes in the bat's barrel to protect the players and the integrity of the game, not to mention your own, right? ... Redemption could also come in the form of an anonymous tip about the seller of potentially (and probably) altered bats ... Your conscience would be a good beacon to follow now ... Excuse us if we have some reservations about your credibility on this ...
Feb. 28, 2018
missouridave
Men's 60
165 posts
For Dave Dowell. Here is the website ( a well know one) where on the very first page
they advertise "heat treated bats". Here is the link https://kellysultimatesports.com/
I was searching the net today looking for some reviews on a specific new bat. I also found several sites where they openly sell shaved and rolled senior bats. Not sure what we can do as senior players to discourage these open sales but it sure makes you wonder what some of the guys are actually swinging.
Feb. 28, 2018
Omar Khayyam
1352 posts
Cowboy Jimmy, good decision and God bless.
Feb. 28, 2018
Hail Ragna!
Men's 55
40 posts
Dave, I took my sailboat out today and did enjoy the ride. I did not mean to open the discussion for altered bats. So please forgive me if these gentleman are back to it again. The bottom line is you do not need any type of enhancement for the bats. Just swing the right bats and you won't create any problems for yourselves. The best one is when someone buys a bat and wants to pay the person they buy it from 25 to 30 dollars to break the bat in. That might be the best one yet. Fools I say. Just hit the bats like you would when you were younger and enjoy the full life of your own bat. The reason I know, I bought a bat from a certain source and he said I can make it hotter for you by putting swings on it before I send it to you. I would bet money the bat was never touched but I paid the extra 30.00 for the break in... Just the way it is.. Buy a bat and have fun...

Hail Ragna!
March 1, 2018
COWBOYJIMMY
Men's 50
49 posts
I sent Dave a email thru senior softball stating everything Missouridave said about where the bat and what they do to them
March 1, 2018
southerinman
Men's 50
52 posts
Since this thread has brought up the topic of bat testing I have a question. It was stated earlier that "if you use it and it then fails testing you will lose your reputation and risk being banned". If a bat fails testing how do you determine the cause of it's failure. I have and still swing some OG U2's. The only 1 of these bats I have that I can definitely tell you the number of swings on it is an 04 version that is still in the wrapper. I guess my question is to SSUSA staff. If a bat fails testing is the owner automatically assumed guilty or will there be further investigation?
March 1, 2018
lb16
Men's 55
177 posts
southerinman - This is just an assumption but I would think a bat that failed testing would be sent to manufacturer for further testing to see if it has been altered. Many well broken in bats that haven't been altered will fail compression testing.
March 1, 2018
SSUSA Staff
3225 posts
southerinman and lb16 ... If a bat fails initial field inspection, we will ask the owner to voluntarily surrender the bat to us for further testing by the manufacturer (see NOTE on page 16 of the Rule Book and the immediately following 3.4(6) and 3.4(7) on pages 16-18) ... The penalties for refusing to voluntarily surrender the bat are detailed ... Also, the results of that manufacturer testing will be the basis for either returning the bat or imposing sanctions if it turns out to be altered ... And, yes, a properly broken in bat may sometimes not be in technical compliance with the tester, which is why we send the bat out for an expert's look ...

March 2, 2018
SilverGhost
32 posts
Is rubbing Wintercrest cream on the barrel illegal?
March 3, 2018
grayhitter59
Men's 60
311 posts
question for staff, let's say bat is surrendered and sent to manufacturer. I believe this requires bat to be cut to determine if anyone has shaved or maybe removal of end cap. If bat is determined that no alteration where done, just simple wear and use over time.

1) does the bat come back to owner ( in same condition as it was sent).

2) If it was cut does owner get new bat.

So question is what happens if nothing is found?

Just curious.









March 3, 2018
HJ
Men's 70
481 posts
Just curious and don't know the answer to this. I know shaving, rolling etc. is rampant in senior softball because it makes the combination of bat and 44/375 hotter. My question is does altering an ASA bat change the effectiveness of that bat and a 52/300 ball?
March 3, 2018
SSUSA Staff
3225 posts
SilverGhost ... Although applying a foreign substance to the bat is technically illegal per Rulebook 3.4(4), we'd probably let that slide (pun intended) because there would be serious questions about the intelligence of the person making that decision as a performance enhancement! [grins]

grayhitter59 ... As we understand the process, the manufacturer will test the bat externally and may also professionally remove the cap for internal inspection and measurements, which will resolve almost all of the alteration questions ... Cutting the bat is very rarely required ... If all is good, they will re-apply the cap, send the bat back to us and we will forward it on to the player ... This was exactly what happened as the result of the most recent bat challenge in an SSUSA event ... We also published the "no problem with the bat" verdict on the bat for the owner's reputation benefit ...

HJ ... We're not sure we agree, without some sort of substantiation on your part that ".. shaving, rolling etc. is rampant in senior softball.." is accurate, and if so, to what degree ... But as to your question that follows your stated opinion, we believe that altering a bat is done solely to gain an unfair performance advantage, and therefore, the answer is probably "yes", regardless of the sanctioning association (ASA) or the bat/ball combination (52/300) in play ...

March 3, 2018
Hail Ragna!
Men's 55
40 posts
Is anybody allowed to sell bats now on this forum? I see certain people still putting their phone numbers and say give me a call. I am not sure on how one person can tell you how one bat hits from other bats. Then proceed to put their little posts about the bat. Then contact them if you need one. I had some extra money a little while back before I spent it on the boat and was wondering about selling bats at a better discounted price then certain people. Was trying to maybe help the little guy. Is a certain number to sell the bats on here. I keep getting these emails from someone that does sell bats. I just trash can them. How do these people get your email addresses. I never gave out my email but yet I must be on some list somewhere.

I do like the Wintercrest for my young lady. She likes the smell as I work on things....

Hail Ragna!
March 3, 2018
COWBOYJIMMY
Men's 50
49 posts
Not only did the guy mess me up by heat treating my new Dudley bat he sent me the 2017 bat and not the 2018 did he see me coming!!
March 3, 2018
Omar Khayyam
1352 posts
I'm surprised that Kelly's is offering the heat treatment on all of its bats to "make it hotter". They have had a good reputation and I have ordered bats from them in the past online. This seems to be a new approach. I wonder if they realize it conflicts with SSUSA (and perhaps other associations), or is is just a come-on that they lay it in the window to warm it up before shipping. They do imply that you receive it still in the wrapper.
March 4, 2018
COWBOYJIMMY
Men's 50
49 posts
The one that Kelly sent me was not in the rapper but I did buy the new one from The Dudley rep in Birmingham though I didn't even use the new bat I use my old melee made two outs and three games it doesn't matter which bat I use everybody stay safe out there God bless
March 4, 2018
titanhd
Men's 60
611 posts
SSUSA Staff. So guilty until proven innocent?
March 4, 2018
SSUSA Staff
3225 posts
Huh?? ... NO OPINION ever expressed by us until the manufacturer's inspection report is received ... We published the "no problem with the bat" finding last time to counter those who, with 1% knowledge and 99% speculation, rushed to the unfair conclusion that the bat was altered ... It wasn't ...
March 4, 2018
grayhitter59
Men's 60
311 posts
Just for discussion purpose, which actually happened to me.

Miken rep, in a winter national tournament tested my combat with a compression device. He told me that bat did not pass the compression test. I used it anyways because I knew it had not been altered in anyway, shape or form. 10 swings later it cracked.

what would have happened if a protest would have been lodged against me as far as SSUSA would be concern?

Just curious
March 4, 2018
SSUSA Staff
3225 posts
grayhitter59 ... Difficult to say as we understand your situation, but it probably wouldn't have played out that way because we wouldn't have had a Miken rep. on site testing a ComBat ... We would have followed the testing procedure we also described above, and would not have been surprised at all if the bat came back "clean" ... We mentioned it above in another post in this thread ...

"..And, yes, a properly broken in bat may sometimes not be in technical compliance with the tester, which is why we send the bat out for an expert's look.."

When a "clean", well-broken in bat gets significantly "out of range" in testing, that's a strong indicator it's probably nearing the end of its functional life ... Which you pretty much confirmed when the bat cracked 10 swings later ... We don't just jump to any hasty conclusions, well, except the one time in Las Vegas where the cap popped off a bat and three tennis balls rolled out of the very-thin barrel! ...

March 4, 2018
Hail Ragna!
Men's 55
40 posts
Sorry to say but I was told by someone once someone was testing compressions in the Miken Truck. Just saying that I think he was telling players there bats were ready to break because of the compression and that is a good way to try and sell a bat. Can't be positive on that one.. Maybe someone else saw that.... If not then we know it was BS someone sold me for 3.50 cents for a cold pepsi...

Hail Ragna!
March 5, 2018
ju25
Men's 60
227 posts
What is the compression number for a 1.21 bpf , I know it is 220 for 1.20. How are senior bats tested? I was under the impression that we used the old test, out of wrapper and center of barrel(sweetspot) vs. Advanced break in(ABI) 500 or so swings(not sure on number) and the whole barrel. Had a Geezer tested a few years back that came in around 215 and it was not the hottest bat in my bag.
March 5, 2018
neck10
710 posts
I was out fishing on the lake behind my house yesterday.I took a bat out with me .I put it in the heated compartment for 2min,then in the icy waters of lake michigan for 2min I did this procedure all afternoon. I bet its really going to make the bat hotter, also caught a few fish with it ,when I came in the house I leaned the bat againts the T V . It must have did something cause the wolverines came out as hot as a firecracker & won the big ten tourney!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
March 5, 2018
VOODOOSPORTS
Men's 40
34 posts
funny read!!!! I say that because compression testing on Sr bats isn't a thing. SSUSA has never set a pass/fall standard.
Sr bats don't fail compression! If they ever did they would have to set the number very low. I had a big cat in the bag at a utrip event and for fun tested it. With 30 cuts on it the bat tested at 150. The guy laughs and says WTF they let guys your size swing these?
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