Home of Senior Softball-USA and Senior Softball World Championships
Advertisement: Queen Kapiolani Hotel

Message board   »Message Board home    »Sign-in or register to get started

Online now: 2 members: Metoy16, rancid; 9 anonymous
Change topic:

Discussion: 3 Game Guarantee v.s Double Elimination Bracket

Posted Discussion
Dec. 10
Rangview85

18 posts
Has anybody ever thought of playing three seeding games and than making the tournaments strictly Double Elimination??

Teams would still be guaranteed 5 games.

Over the years with the three game guarantee brackets I have seen several games that just didn't matter and on some occasions it would benefit your team if you took a loss. For example, there was a time if we lost we would make it to Sunday, but if we won we still had another game to win to make it to Sunday.

Just thought I would bring this up and see what every ones thoughts might be.

Thanks in advance.
Dec. 10
SSUSA Staff

3613 posts
Seems like it's time to recycle this one again, for the seventh time - REPRINT OF MESSAGE BOARD POST FROM 2006, 2011, 2012 (twice), 2014 and 2016 ON TOPIC:

There are three principal reasons SSUSA adopted (in 2006) the two Round Robin into Three-Game-Guarantee Bracket (2RR/3GG) format for brackets of five or more teams –

1. A strong majority of teams believe that the ‘real’ tournament begins only when the elimination bracket begins, regardless of its structure. The 2RR/3GG format gets teams into the brackets earlier and keeps them there longer, meeting that majority belief while still complying with the five game guarantee offered in SSUSA events.

2. The 2RR/3GG format requires less total games than the former 3RR/DE structure. With the growth in the number of teams being at a faster rate than the availability of new playing facilities, ‘every game counts’ in scheduling.

3. In any division with an odd number of teams playing a three-game seeding, one of those teams must play an “exhibition” game that doesn’t count in the standings, but constitutes that team’s fourth game prior to the bracket. Almost all teams that draw that extra game believe it is unfair. There are no “exhibition” games in the 2RR/3GG format.

The 3GG format is also the industry norm for the ASA, NSA, USSSA and almost all other significant softball associations.

Dec. 10
Rangview85

18 posts
Just being "Devils Advocate" here.....

Has it been discussed recently? Kinda like how an 11th man was just added to the 65 age group? Apparently opinions can change.

1. It would change a little I think of when the "real" tournament begins because seedings would mean a little more.

2. Less total games does help SSUSA, I would agree with that.

3. With a win or loss in some of the 3GG formats you don't move forward, you just move up and/or down. To me that is an "exhibition " game.

Thanks for reading and sharing your thoughts.
Dec. 10
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4432 posts
No worries, RV85 ... I don't have an opinion on what, if anything, might be a discussion topic for change ... This is the "why we do it" recap ... Thanks for commenting ... Maybe others will chime in ...
Dec. 10
Enviro-Vac
Men's 65
491 posts
Our team would take and prefer the 3 game RR with a double KO over current configurations.
Dec. 11
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4432 posts
E-V-M ... Of course you would! ... When we scheduled under the 3RR into DE format in the old days, you guys were the only team that would call and tell me: "Hey, we're traveling a long way from Canada to the USA to play ball, so if there's an extra game that has to be played by someone, WE WANT IT!" ... I admired that attitude! ... It was a refreshing change from those who chose to whine about it instead ... Merry Christmas! ...
Dec. 12
Alamo

27 posts
A format of DE is great. Last year Vegas in the 75 AAA --- 4 RR n single elimination -- what a waste of money. Give a team to chance to play.
Dec. 12
Alamo

27 posts
That was 4 pool games. Should of being a round robin tournament. And not a single elimination bracket.
Dec. 12
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4432 posts
Alamo ... In scheduling the age 75+ and more senior divisions, I do everything I can to prevent you playing more than two games per day in potentially very hot conditions in Las Vegas ... This is an overriding health and safety tournament structure for your personal benefit ... Your tournament had a maximum of 30 potential games (including the "If" game) ... To have played a 10-team DE after those 20 RR games would have tacked on another 19 games, for a total of 39 ... Thursday could have had teams playing as many as five games in six time slots ... Every team had their 5-game-guarantee met, exactly as advertised ... The format was designed with your health and welfare as a priority, whether or not you appreciate, or like, it ...

Sign-in to reply or add to a discussion or post your own message and start a new discussion. If you don't have a message board account, please register for a free nickname. It will only take a moment.
Senior Softball-USA
Email: info@SeniorSoftball.com
Phone: (916) 326-5303
Fax: (916) 326-5304
9823 Old Winery Place, Suite 12
Sacramento, CA 95827
Senior Softball-USA is dedicated to informing and uniting the Senior Softball Players of America and the World. Senior Softball-USA sanctions tournaments and championships, registers players, writes the rulebook, publishes Senior Softball-USA News, hosts international softball tours and promotes Senior Softball throughout the world. More than 1.5 million men and women over 40 play Senior Softball in the United States today. »SSUSA History  »Privacy policy

Follow us on Facebook

Partners