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Online now: 4 members: Ken6, Scottytoohottie, Speedy33, TABLE SETTER 11; 102 anonymousDiscussion: Seniors and Home Runs
| Posted | Discussion |
| Feb. 21, 2009 wagon487 Men's 55 578 posts | Seniors and Home Runs I see a lot written about being seniors and hitting home runs. We've earned the right to hit home runs. They should not be outs. All our pratice (albeit it seems not hitting opposite field), senior bats and swinging hard, we should not be penalized for hitting HRs. I don't understand what one has to do with the other. While we are at it, why don't we change the third strike foul ball out? We hit it hard, just a little to much to the left or right, we are seniors, shouldn't be an out anymore. And line drives, we hit them hard, just at someone, no longer outs. We are seniors are we have earned all of the above. Like i've said before, when I played B we had home run limits, never a problem. |
| Feb. 21, 2009 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | i'm with ya wagon,i had the pleasure of being able to play b and yes there was limits.did we live them and just play,yes we did.now the upper groups were allowed to hit more,as thats what it should be.the lower divs in kids ball are not allowed to hit them and they can deal with it,why can't we.i can see AA getting 1 maybe 2 max hr's a game,as accidents do happen.AAA should get 3 but def not more than 5(personally i would leave it at 3 to stop sandbagging). i also am trying to figure out the "we earned the right to hit them out"also. |
| Feb. 21, 2009 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Sometimes, Robert, asking important questions brings up disturbing facts and truths about what we're doing or what's really going on. The game is being controlled/influenced primarily by whom? Whose game is it, anyway? Important questions that can yield some difficult to troubling answers. I say it's OUR game, primarily those who pay for, suffer and enjoy it and it brings up the question of why should we let anyone or association, if in fact this is happening take over or take us over to suit their own agendas. A lot of players like me have a lot of questions that are proving difficult for some to answer. The dialogue can be constructive and informative to all if respectfully done. That's my interpretation of the answer to your query regarding "we earned the right to hit them out" because we have. |
| Feb. 21, 2009 zatta Men's 60 12 posts | I think you missed the point. It is just a game and we all play the game. I don't have a problem with the home run rule. I have a problem with the complaining about it. I also have a problem with you trying to represent all of us, you do not represent me. What I don't understand is why the totals are less as the age groups get older. |
| Feb. 22, 2009 wagon487 Men's 55 578 posts | I agree zatta! |
| Feb. 22, 2009 QC Softball Men's 55 20 posts | I play in a league with some guys that are fun to play with but the skill level isn't even 55 AA and no one on team had ever hit a home run over the fence. I brought my U's and now three of them now can't say that ever again. At the lower levels a home to single is maybe OK (how to police is tough)but at the higher levels there has to be some limits to bring back softball as I knew it. Defense has to be part of the game also. |
| Feb. 22, 2009 Player25 Men's 55 50 posts | IMHO softball is about more than the home run. It is about defense, fundamentals, strategy, speed, hitting. I believe we have allowed technology to feed the egos of the senior player. There appears to be a folks on the MB that feel home runs are the only part of softball. There is a big difference between a team that hits a considerable number of HRs and a team that relies on base hits. Over the course of a weekend the base hitting team exerts considerably more energy running bases versus a team hitting home runs that either gets to walk to the dugout or walk around the bases as each additional single is hit. If the game is only about home runs just have a home run contest between each 2 teams. Game time should be shortened. Each home run scores any ball not hit out is an out. Play seven innings. Would guess few teams would show up to play. |
| Feb. 23, 2009 wagon487 Men's 55 578 posts | new rule change, all outs are no longer outs, you get to hit until you get on base. |
| Feb. 23, 2009 WOW 197 posts | I agree with Wagons 1st. post. If we are still playing at our age, we deserve to "feel good" about still being able to put it out. Why the penalty. At least let the TRUE aa players hit away. If anything, restrict only the M and M+ divisions. Just because these guys can do it at every at bat doesn't mean us that can't should be punished. {This is NOT meant meant to be a disparaging comment directed toward you M and M+ guys, but I know I speak for the majority of us that are LUCKY enough to put ANY ball over the fence.] |
| Feb. 23, 2009 Robo2 238 posts | If one allows unlimited HRs; we would get through the innings faster and the better teams would advance to the next level faster. allow unlimited HRs at all levels and see the separation quickly. |
| Feb. 23, 2009 dj 32 posts | All the comments make it sound like every senior player can hit the ball over the fence any time he wants to. I played in the TOC in Flordia last month 60aa we played 8 games only 1 hr was hit in the 8 games, these were some of the best 60aa teams in SSUSA, my two cents |
| Feb. 23, 2009 WOW 197 posts | Good post Dennis. See you Sat. Is raining up your way? |
| Feb. 23, 2009 Dirty Men's 50 1371 posts | WOW, would you feel good dunking using a trampoline? Same thing. |
| Feb. 23, 2009 WOW 197 posts | Dirty. Whats your point? |
| Feb. 23, 2009 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Disparaging, To treat unequally.... Not unlike the home run issue. Your punished with an out for a great hit. The older you get (AGE only here) is seems you get less allowed over, is this not unequal or disparaging. If teams that have a hitter(s) who can put them out will win a few more, golly gee, then they get moved up should they win a major tourney. I don't see anything wrong with more competition. But do see the possible problem of going back down from there. They may have got lucky and the other team(s) didn't play well. I agree to allow then to hit them, all levels\ages and see where it leads. I do not believe it will result in faster innings, but may well result in longer ones especially if teams aren't rated (paired off) correctly. Mercy rules would be the only way to keep it shorter if that is a concern. |
| Feb. 23, 2009 Dirty Men's 50 1371 posts | How exciting is doing what you never could before only because of the use of technology? |
| Feb. 23, 2009 tater9 62 posts | What answers are you expecting from such subjective questions? Ones that only require a response for continued debate for argumentative purposes or are they to help facilitate an already established belief that you adhere to and the masses don't? |
| Feb. 23, 2009 AlleninGa Men's 60 113 posts | Dirty, #1: It feels pretty good being able to play softball after a triple by-pass........technology. #2: I always could hit pretty well...feels great to be able to continue hitting the ball hard as a senior, due to technology. Hit a couple out then........hit a couple out now. #3: Good ball players have always opted for the best technology available and they always will and there's always been those content to live in the past. There's a place for everyone. |
| Feb. 23, 2009 hitt2 353 posts | AlleninGa Very nice post. good luck this season. He will never get it. |
| Feb. 23, 2009 Joncon 328 posts | A) Dunking off a trampoline would be sweet! B)It feels good to hit a ball hard with an Ultra. It doesn't make me an all star but it scores at least one run and I don't have to break a sweat :) If no one else used them I wouldn't complain about it. If the are allowed, I'm going to use it. |
| Feb. 23, 2009 Dbax Men's 65 2101 posts | "How exciting is doing what you never could before only because of the use of technology?" It's very exciting. You should try hitting one once. |
| Feb. 23, 2009 curt Men's 60 11 posts | What’s the big deal? If your team is consistently hitting more than 3 Hrs (AAA) a game, than move up. More than 5 Hrs (Major) a game, than move up. One up, than singles, just makes it easy to play down. If you are occasionally hitting a Hr for an out, how’s that any different than crushing one….right at someone? One suggestion I would like to offer, a little distance between the divisions. 1 Hr for AA. 4 Hrs for AAA. 8 Hrs for Major. 12 for Major +. Makes for a distinct line (much like Major to Major+ now) for all the classifications. I pitch. To hell with the screen. I’m not for the DBO. You can get hit anytime. I don’t know if either the HR rule (potentially more shots up the middle) or the DBO out rule (discouraging shots up the middle) is going to change that. Protective equipment is available. A 5th infielder is an option. It’s the pitchers responsibility to field their position. The SSUSA is making an honest attempt to make the game more competitive across the board. They should be applauded. |
| Feb. 24, 2009 Dirty Men's 50 1371 posts | Bottom line is seniors are allowed bats that no one else is, and with no valid reason except for the misguided egos of aging guys. Technology is fine, "special" technology is kind of sad. |
| Feb. 24, 2009 tater9 62 posts | Dirty, Not sure what you mean by "special" technology but the young guys game is also infiltrated with misguided egos. There is no way many of those young guys I play with and against should be hitting balls as hard or as far as they do. Pretty simple.....the bat comapanies found a market that the senior associations will allow. Market it at an affordable price and the rest is history. |
| Feb. 24, 2009 Dirty Men's 50 1371 posts | "Special" are the bats only Seniors can use. No reason for it whatsoever. If guys cannot hit with today's USSSA bats they should probably find another hobby. |
| Feb. 24, 2009 salio2k Men's 60 547 posts | Dirty.........You got to move to California...........1.20 bats allowed. I play with kids, not seniors during the week. Nothing new, I've told you before. |
| Feb. 24, 2009 Dirty Men's 50 1371 posts | Salio, sorry I am not following. |
| Feb. 24, 2009 salio2k Men's 60 547 posts | Dirty..you say that 1.20 bats (U2, Combat) are "special" bats that only seniors can use. I've got 24 year olds going middle on me all the time with these "special" bats. |
| Feb. 24, 2009 Dirty Men's 50 1371 posts | I am saying bat models only approved for seniors are special. What else should they be called? Where are you playing that they are legal? Or are you saying they are painted? |
| Feb. 24, 2009 hitt2 353 posts | SPECIAL BAT? Here’s a thought. The softball associations determine which bats they will allow for tourney play. They create a list of what they deem to hot for their association. NSA, USSSA, ASA are all different. However SS-USA doesn’t institute bat restrictions, “Bring it and swing it”. This doesn’t make the bat special. Everyone has a brand or model of bat they’ve liked over the years. I’ve said it before there are no special bats. There are different levels of quality and durability. I think this is called marketing. SS-USA is a market that wants good bat/ball combos. Guys hit homeruns before they came to senior ball and continue to do so. Some players hit them once in a while and continue to do so. 30 % are now able to hit a homer. If they’re happy with that ok, mostly league play. However for a bat to be “special” imho, it would be one that anybody swinging it would hit a HR. from AA to Major + distance would be the deciding factor. Many senior players don’t hit HRs I for one haven’t hit a home with a UII, just really high fly ball, warning track power, with my Worth Wicked est, not the composite I still hit homeruns now and then. With my combat I hit homeruns now and then, but not all the time which a special bat would do. Many of us work out & take extra batting practice to maintain our level of play (hitting the ball hard and far). Also monitoring our diets and health to continue to play this game we love. Please put the special bat argument to bed it’s getting older that we are. |
| Feb. 24, 2009 Dirty Men's 50 1371 posts | You can say nothing is special, but as long as they are only allowed for Seniors that is exactly what they are. What I don't understand is why the guys good enough to hit with Utrip bats (or less) tolerate these accommodations for the guys who need them to do what many could not in their 20s and 30s. |
| Feb. 24, 2009 Robo2 238 posts | All please go back to my earlier statement and answer this: if HRs are unlimited, the teams that can hit them will advance to the next level faster and eventually (not long) there will be a true equality at each level. By masking HRs by singles or outs, all you do is keep the higher scoring teams down longer. Why is there a HR limit? You will also find that 5 runs per inning get there quicker and you get the whole game in more often. The you will have ture teams that play A, AA, AAA, Major, and Majro+. Nobody ever anwers this question. I turely enjoy hitting them out - technology or not. Also I know some top notch players and they will be the first to say they cannot hit them out at will. The ones that seem to think so are the ones who can't hit any out. |
| Feb. 24, 2009 Dirty Men's 50 1371 posts | It might be enjoyable, but not nearly the achievement guys want to make it out to be. Now let's all go dunk with trampolines. |
| Feb. 24, 2009 tater9 62 posts | Dirty, Call them what you want but to me it is nothing more than a great marketing gimmick. I guess the young crowd will have nothing to look forward to when they turn 50 because many of them are already reaping the benefits of the plastic bat age at 20 and 30. Talk about misguided egos!!!! |
| Feb. 24, 2009 Dirty Men's 50 1371 posts | tater, I agree. Egos can be misguided at any and all ages. |
| Feb. 24, 2009 Robo2 238 posts | guys, I understand you feel differently but I would like to hear someone answer my question on if HRs were unlimited at ll levels; and, my preceived benefits of fater games; fater and truer rise in rankings; and more competitive groupings. |
| Feb. 24, 2009 hitt2 353 posts | Robo2 I agree that it would provide a means to separate the teams in an effective manner, with unlimited HRs. But why at the top II levels only? It should be all divisions. Evolving toward parity in AA, AAA, Major and Major +. With the 5 run inning rule the games would go faster. In the open inning it might be an idea to limit hr's to 5. JMO. |
| Feb. 24, 2009 Robo2 238 posts | I agree it should be at every level to allow for quick equality. Also, I like your idea of limiting the unlimited inning to say 2 HRs. At least it would not get out of hand. I really don't think there will be that many HRs in the AA and AAA levels, but where they do occur you will see a quick promotion to a higher level and teams will stop complaining about other teams being too powerful for that division. In one tournament this year, our team hit 5 HRs in one game (wind aided) and a total of 3 in the other 5 games combined. I would rather a good team beat us badly and get moved up quicker than to face them several times over 2 or 3 years because they were held back due to a rule that limits them to outs or singles. |
| Feb. 24, 2009 WOW 197 posts | Again I ask.......... Dirty, Whats your point. We know your opinion. Don't you get it? Your alone in your point of view. Don't you feel like a looser irritating everyone when it is very rare that you get a person to agree with you. |
| Feb. 24, 2009 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | WOW,that is the only reason he (dirty)posts.he got cut by the senior team he tried to play for b/c of attitude,and not being able to play up to par for them.so now the only thing he has is his bad attitude to bring on this board to bother people with.he has this one trick pony he keeps bringing up.we all know that all assoc's have thier bat rules,SS-USA it is 1.2 bpf,all bats that pass that are legal for play in senior ball.he just doesn't seem to be able to grasp that fact.lot of the other assoc's have thier own bat list to use,thats thier perrogative.the only special bats i know of are shaved bats. also what does dunking a basketball off a trampoline have to do with softball? |
| Feb. 25, 2009 WOW 197 posts | Mad dog What he doesn't get is he's alone in his point of view. NOBODY AGREES WITH HIM. I can see why he was cut from his team. He must have been a lot of fun to have as a teammate........ Can you say Black Sheep. |
| Feb. 25, 2009 4x4 Men's 65 601 posts | Dirty posts here (and elsewhere) for the sole purpose of disprupting for his own self gratification. Whatever is clinically wrong with him simply will not allow him to participate respectfully and meaningfully. Softball is obviously not his sport - it is his excuse to taunt and belittle others indiscriminately. |
| Feb. 25, 2009 Gary33 149 posts | I'd like to add to this discussion. I wish I could still play senior ball. After triple by-pass 15 years ago I played ball as much as I could. I even hit six weeks after surgery. But now one of the grafted arteries is clogged. They don't want to do surgery again so I can't play the sport I've loved for forty years. What I wouldn't give to swing those special bats again. One thing I can do is help coach two teams that all the guys are good friends and enjoy each others company and play excellent fundemental softball. Yeah the bats are special and so are the guys who swing them. |
| Feb. 25, 2009 4x4 Men's 65 601 posts | Gary33......Great post, very nice and sobering comment. One to help us remember how spoiled we are to enjoy our game at this time of our lives. Even though you are no longer on the field playing you are still out the contributing. Atta boy. Your post is a refreshing reminder of the real spirit of this sport. |
| Feb. 26, 2009 WOW 197 posts | Gary33. Your inspirational post is the type we all need to see on this board, NOT Dirties. |
| Feb. 26, 2009 Dirty Men's 50 1371 posts | Yea, let's not legitimately question anything rather all just roll over for "einstein's" "thoughts". |
| Feb. 26, 2009 hitt2 353 posts | Dirty So predictable. Einstein It's not worth it. |
| Feb. 26, 2009 diehard Men's 55 246 posts | Dirty Gary 19, The problem with you is YOU are not legitimate! You don't (can't) play, you just agitate! At least Einstein plays and plays well. I have played against him, watched him play and have friends who know him well as a quality player. So, whether one agrees with him on all issues, some issues, or no issues at all, at least his words carry some weight. But you, your word is not legitimate because you don't (can't) play! You just agitate. Now, in this post he didn't even mention you at all, and why do you think that is? It's because your word is worthless to this or any post. You are the only one who gives yourself any legitimacy. P.S. Dirty Gary 19, You still have not answered my question to you, and it has been almost 2 months since I asked you the question. |
| Feb. 26, 2009 Gary33 149 posts | WOW & 4X4 thanks for your comments. I believe that all senior ball players know their skill level and can make their own decisions about weather they can field the position they play when the opposition is using senior bats.I've pitched before but not in senior ball. I wouldn't dare try to play that position even if I were able. It takes a special player to play that position. I coach 3 of the best. Every one can make their own decisions. So why not choose ASA where senior bats are not allowed if you're not comfortable playing against U2's or Combats. Play SPA or SSUSA where they are legal if your skill level matches up to that. But each person can make their own minds up. So Dirty go play league ball or ASA if you're not comfortable playing with the big boys. Take your act to the ASA website where you can preach to your hearts content about the evils of senior bats. |
| Feb. 26, 2009 QC Softball Men's 55 20 posts | I like the homer run rules because I'll take my changes that most home hitters can't change their swing to hit singles and I want to catch some of those halve swing fly balls. If the have trouble changing their swing they usually can hit the pitcher. The real power hits can hit pretty much where ever they want. Those guys don't swing for the pitcher. Our major plus team needs the limits to compete with the big home run hitting teams. We hit a lot of singles and doubles and use our team speed to win. If the big guys just hit home runs the don't have to run and their bench doesn't have to run for them. I want to see these teams that depend on the home run run of offense and play defense. |
| Feb. 26, 2009 Golong 4 posts | Can anyone help me out on what changes have been made as to what bats can be used? |
| March 1, 2009 WOW 197 posts | Golong Dirty can be a help here. He seems to know everything. |
| March 1, 2009 Dirty Men's 50 1371 posts | diehard, just because you claim I haven't doesn't make it so. |
| March 1, 2009 diehard Men's 55 246 posts | Dirty, Let me just say, you haven't given one that wasn't deleted. |
| March 2, 2009 Dirty Men's 50 1371 posts | If it was, my fault? "einstein" was on a roll with causing deleted threads. Care to repeat the question? |
| March 2, 2009 diehard Men's 55 246 posts | Dirty, You stated that the majority of Senior players were against the use of Senior bats, I know that they aren't! There is not much sense to get into a debate with you about this because most Senior leagues, including mine, do not allow the use of Senior bats. Mine does not, although most players would use them if they could. And you only play league ball. In the tournaments that allow the use of Senior bats, I would say that probably 95% of the players playing these games, use them. And you said that you do not play tournament ball,so you don't know, and can't state factually what most Seniors prefer! So, to make a statement saying that most Seniors were against the use of Senior bats, was not a correct statement, and one of which you had no factual information to back your statement up. I just disagree with that premise.And without getting into a long boring diatribe, let's just agree to disagree on this subject , and move on. |
| March 2, 2009 salio2k Men's 60 547 posts | Golong.........There have not been any changes. Here are the rules for each association.......http://www.softballrating.com/rules.php |
| March 2, 2009 Dirty Men's 50 1371 posts | I NEVER said that. Quite the contrary, I unfortunately believe that most seniors are in favor of special bats so they can do in their 50s and 60s what they probably could not in their 20s and 30s. I have seen the folly of most Senior tournaments, but have played in a few and watched a few more. So yes, I do have some feel for what goes on at them. |
| March 2, 2009 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | We're largely being administered to and influenced by people who never did or no longer play senior softball or who live in another part of the country from the rest of us and have a different sense of our game. Florida players/teams for example are more concerned about Snow Bird rules and regs than we are in the West and are wiling to prioritize accordingly and differently than we do. In short, too many people who don't really participate in, understand or share our fundamental concerns of senior softball, regional or otherwise, are having too much to say about us, who we are and what we want and need. Dirty Gary Summers is a card carrying member of this group who don't share in the experience of national tournaments and need not be taken seriously or listened to or responded to, regarding them He's a proven naysayer who sees little good in us and what we've been doing. |
| March 2, 2009 diehard Men's 55 246 posts | Dirty, You most certainly DID say it. You as you have done in all or most of your posts you make it up as you go along. I play 50 major and 55 major, andwere wrong when you said it and you are wrong now when you deny saying it. But most games that I have played in whether Senior bats are allowed or not, are not decided by home runs! So this big thing that you have over the bats is much to do about nothing. |
| March 2, 2009 Dirty Men's 50 1371 posts | I see little good in special bats, any of the new pitcher protection rules, the mat, and the second home plate. I see little value in spending hundreds of dollars to play in a very small bracket in one of the countless "world" tournaments that for the most part you don't have to qualify for but just pay your way in. Care to tell me the abundant good in any of those? No, sorry, don't believe I did. Special bats do more than just facilitate homers. They facilitate liners in gaps and harder ground balls that get past infielders. Think a little, please. |
| March 2, 2009 diehard Men's 55 246 posts | No, because there is not much in what you said that I could disagree with. The Senior game is somewhat different than non-Senior softball. I believe the difference between you and I is that instead of using what little playing time that I may have left arguing about this rule and that rule, I prefer to play! And while I don't care to beat a horse to death here, it is you that needs to think, or maybe your ability to remember things is eroding. You DID say it and you just don't remember. ODE TO GARY There sits Gary, Also known as Dirty, Trying to remember, when he was thirty. He won't play the Senior game, with those special bats, it's not the same. He can't remember what he said, two months ago, what's in his head? Dirty,or Gary, or Gary19, at the tournament games, he won' be seen. So he sits, in his home, with all of his friends, all alone. |
| March 2, 2009 DesertDave Men's 60 74 posts | We are (most of us) just out here trying to have fun. Part of having fun is hitting the ball well and feeling good about the results. I'm not sure the HR rule is going to make the lower M+ teams more competitive with the top teams, especially in 50 and 55. This may affect our team occasionally (we are now in M). I am willing to give it the benefit of the doubt to see how it plays out this year. I like to hit HR's as much as the next guy, but I get just as much enjoyment running the bases or running down a fly ball to rob someone (if I don't drop it). The SSUSA is not going to drop this until it is tested for awhile, so we might as well relax and enjoy being able to "PLAY BALL". Sorry for rambling so much. I just wanted to get this discussion back on track now that it has been "DIRTIED" by a 1000 batter and 300 bowler from Ohio. :) |
| March 2, 2009 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | i still want to see these special bats you talk about dipty.only thing i can find are ss-usa,spa,asa,usssa,nsa,isa legal bats.what are these special bats u keep harping about.i did and still can hit balls out of the park with any assoc bat you would like to put in my hands.i use what is LEGAL for the assoc i happen to play. before we forget you still were cut by a senior team b/c you couldn't meet thier playing standard.must be why you feel the need to come on here and attempt to run everyone down.sorry attempt at that. oh joe no one earns the right to hit balls out of the park unless they work at it by practice and such. |
| March 3, 2009 Dirty Men's 50 1371 posts | mad dog, you playing dumb or just being yourself? |
