Two runners score on base hit, first runner fails to touch scoring plate, second runner touches scoring plate. First runner goes back and touches scoring plate. At no time does catcher step on scoring plate. What is the call, is this an out declared by the umpire or an appeal call?

hitrun.. this would an appeal play.. once the 2nd runner touched the scoring plate the 1st runner can no longer legally go back and
touch it .. also all runners are assumed to touch any bag that they pass by but if appealed by the defense he would be called out

Here's another question to ask. IF, there are no outs or even one out. Runner 1 does not touch the Scoring Plate, runner 2 does. If, the Umpire noticed runner 1 not touching the plate. When you appeal runner 1 for not touching the plate and the Umpire calls runner one OUT. Here is a important question. Since Runner one did not touch the scoring plate before Runner 2 DID. That means since RUNNER 2 scored first he would have had to PASS runner 1 to do so. Is the Umpire going to call runner 2 out also, for passing runner 1? No outs it's a double play. With one out it an inning ending double play.

What rule are you siting @Not Dave that this would be two outs?! Once the trail runner touches home the lead runner can no longer return to touch the plate, so they are no longer considered a runner right?!

I wouldn't necessarily say it's an appeal play IMO. If the Ump is paying attention and sees the first runner never touches the scoring plate but the second runner does he should declare dead ball and the 2nd runner is automatically called out for passing the runner in front of him.

JohnO, If the umpire does calls the second runner out for passing the lead runner, the umpire is saying W/O using words, that the first runner did not touch the scoring plate. You would not have to appeal. At that point with 0 or 1 out, it becomes a double play. Once the second runner touched the scoring plate, the first runner can NOT return to try and touch the plate. IF, runner 1 does NOT touch the plate, as long as he does NOT go in the dugout he can try to touch the plate BEFORE THE SECOND RUNNER DOES.
Here is where an appeal would come into play.
1) If runner one scores by himself and he does not touch the scoring plate, the umpire should NOT say anything unless the other team appeals it. It's just like a runner missing a base.
2) If runner 2 tries to score and is thrown out, technically runner 2 did NOT pass runner one. That means you would have to appeal if runner 1 did not touch home plate.

FireCrackerFun, If the umpire says runner 2 touched the scoring plate first, he is saying runner one did not touch the plate. That means, runner 2 is out for passing runner 1. That would mean runner 1 did not touch the plate so you would NOT have to appeal. It is NOT the same rule as a runner being passed on the bases.

JohnO28, it is always an appeal play. Umpire clinics stress this. At home even though clearly see the miss, we signal safe or do nothing unless it is properly appealed. You really don’t want umpires making calls on everything see that should be an appeal instead. A good umpire will never do that. Only a poorly trained or very inexperienced umpire would make that mistake.

Nancy,

You're entitled to your opinion but if the Ump is watching the first runner and he clearly sees he missed the plate and then sees the second runner touch the plate he has to call one of them out. By your logic if there is a runner on 1B and runner on 2B and the runner on 1B passes the runner who started on 2B that isn't an appeal play the runner that was on 1B is automatically out and play continues.

Now I would agree with your statement if there was only 1 runner and he failed to touch home plate the ump shouldn't say anything unless questioned on it. However seeing as the ump SAW the first runner miss the plate and then WITNESSED the second runner touch the plate the second runner immediately is called out and it's up to the defense to appeal the first runners status.

JohnO28,
In your second paragraph you missed the point. If the UMPIRE called out the second runner for touching the plate first, without saying a word about the first runner, he is stating that the first runner did NOT touch the plate. That is the ONLY way he can call the second runner out immediately. If an umpire sees the first runner had not touched the plate, the umpire should NOT signal anything.

True Example, couple years ago I was umpiring a league game. One out, runners on 3B & 2B. Home team 1 run lead in the top of 7th. Batter gets a base hit,runner on 3B runs towards home. For some reason he stopped in the back of the right-hand batters box to watch the play. The runner that was on 2B passed the runner that was on 3B. Before he even touch the plate I called him OUT for passing the runner. GAME OVER, double play.

Not Dave,

What is the rule for 1 runner passing another runner on the basepath?

JohnO28, Runner 1 can NOT pass anyone on the base path. He is the lead runner. IF the trailing runner passes the lead runner, the trailing runner is immediately called out. The ball would still be live. No appeal necessary.

JohnO28, the missing the plate or a base is not an opinion. That is taught in umpire clinics and is an appeal play only. As far as the rest of the scenario, I agree with B.J.

JohnO28, let’s say runner on 1st no outs. Batter hits one in the gap. Runner scores but misses second. Batter ends up on third. Going by what you stated the umpire would call the runner who missed second out immediately and the batter out because he “passed” the runner going to third. Thats a new one on me. What you believe is incorrect.
As Nancy and BJ correctly stated it’s an appeal play. In my scenario if the defense appealed the runner missing second he would be out, (presuming the umpire saw it), no run and the batter would stay at third.
It’s no different if a runner does not touch the second plate or cross the scoring line.

Question Not Dave - As per your True Example there is only 1 out, runners on 2B and 3B, no force. You state "Batter gets a base hit". As lead runner on 3B stops in "right-hand batters box to watch the play", my assumption is you should have called them out for illegally crossing home? (whether there was a scoring line or a scoring plate that should not matter). Personally, I believe that would be the correct call (and the one I would have made) and would be IMMEDIATE therefore the runner scoring from 2B should be allowed unless I am missing something?

JohnO - always tricky as an umpire understanding what is an appeal situation. GREAT example stick8! :-)