The scenario is 2 outs tie ball game, last half of the last inning, home team batting. Bases are loaded and batter is walked on four balls. Batter touches first and runner on third touches scoring plate. Everyone else, both defensive and offensive abandon their positions in field and dugout to shake hands, before runner on first touched second. It is my belief that since this is a dead ball award of a base, once batter touches first and runner on third scores, game is over, regardless of whether runner on first touches 2nd or not. Rule 5.7 only discusses force outs or live ball situations. Hoping the guru's here can help clear it up and point me to the correct rule that applies either way. thanks in advance Frank

The moment the runner touches the plate it is the third out and the ball game goes into extra innings or ends in a tie.

My apologies, Runner on third is touching the scoring plate not the pitching mat or the batters box. Seems like you were referring to what would happen if the runner on third touched the batters box or pitching mat.

frontrowfanatic ... This inquiry sounds a LOT like an incident that may have occurred as recently as last night in Texas ... One of our Texas directors (Ron Perkins) called this morning to describe the circumstances ... His explanation was that it was a tied game, bases loaded and two outs in the bottom of the last inning when the batter walked ...

The base runner on 1st (R1) at the time of the declined to properly advance to 2nd base, and upon appeal by the defense, the umpire agreed and called R1 out for failure to legally acquire 2nd base when forced to vacate 1st base following the walk ... Base runners R2 and R3 were not allowed to advance because, with 2nd open, they were not forced ...

The director also indicated he has spoken with the Chair of the SSUSA National Rules Committee to confirm the decisions made were correct ... Take a look at Rulebook §8.1 • TOUCHING BASES IN ORDER (specifically sub-paragraph "I" on page 44) ... Are we talking about the same incident?

Yes sir, Thank you. So your saying runner on 3rd doesn't have the right to score unless R1 touches 2nd and R2 touches 3rd.

Would it make a difference if all players both offense and defense, had all vacated their positions and were shaking hands when the runner vacated his advance to 2nd.

Much Appreciated.

because the runner on 3rd did touch all bases prior to touching home.

What I attempted to convey was the application of the concept of the runner(s) on base being "forced to advance" because of the walk ... When R1 in effect abandoned 2nd base by not advancing, that had the practical effect of NOT forcing R2 and R3 to have to advance ... They remain "stuck" on 2nd and 3rd bases, respectively, because there was nobody advancing to 2nd base to "force them over ... As for the timing issue you raise, I asked the Director if the umpires and players were all still within the confines of the diamond (including dugouts) and he said "Yes" ... I "don't have a dog in this fight", but it seems to me that R1, for whatever reasons known only to him, didn't think he had to legally advance that one base following the walk ... That was a mistaken assumption on his part ...

thanks for your time.

Dave,

I would assume the runner on 1B didn't advance because most of the time in situations like that the umps tell you that you don't have to advance to save time. Rarely do we get to play a full 7 innings so in order to save time when things like this occur and there is zero chance of an out taking place we are just told we don't have to advance. I get it rules are rules but the runner physically walking to the next base or even running should have no bearing on the outcome.

JohnO, we agree on this ... I came away from the conversation this morning thinking, and telling the Director: "This umpire probably made a technically correct call that he never would have considered if the offended team hadn't started jumping up and down waving a rulebook in his face" ... Translation: The correct call isn't always the right call ...

As a trainer, I instruct umpires to carefully watch the batter-runner and each baserunner when a 5th run scenario occurs. They should know how many outs there are and what the call is if one or the other fails to advance to the next base.

I saw the proper technique applied more than a few times at BLD last week. So on behalf of umpires that take pride in their work, I take exception to the idea that umps will encourage runners to take a shortcut "most of the time."

Tim,

As someone who's been an ump for over 30 years I agree that umps that take pride in their work, make the right calls, don't try to make the game about them, and know not only the scenario prior to every pitch but also ones who know the actual rules.

I'm glad that you witnessed all of that last weekend but that doesn't make my statement any less true. I'm sure you've been around the senior game longer than I have but I can assure you that umpires more often than not try to speed the game up exactly how I said. Hell we've had guys that were injured and had no subs but had to stand in the box and occasionally taken walks and the umps have said you don't have to walk all the way down there just tell me the number pinch running. Not all umps follow all the rules as is extremely evident by a few of the people commenting on this and other posts claiming to be umps. He'll some umps tell you in SSUSA a HR is hit and sit while some make everyone advance a base and that is a fact.

In the scenario above the way it works is simple. Every runner touches the next base!! Batter runner to first, first to second, second to third and third to home. Most teams will holler out to their teammates “touch the next base”—in no uncertain terms!!
Umpire should be watching for this. When all runners complete touching the next base the umpire out “ball game”
Game over