I read the minutes for this past rules committee meeting. I'm a little confused: when the ball is fouled backwards, does the ball have to go over the batter's head when caught by the catcher to be an out?
FTP.. yes .. when caught it’s an out and a dead ball
Just out of curiosity, why is it a dead ball? A popup to any other fielder in foul territory is not a dead ball.
B.J.for clarification, are you saying a foul ball caught by the catcher that does not go over the batter's head is not an out?
LMR. Great point regarding dead ball. If a catch happens to track down a foul pop up and is going away from the plate say toward the first base dugout and less than one out runner on 3rd. Why wouldn’t that runner be able to try and tag up and out run the catcher or pitcher to home/scoring line. I hope this makes sense.
In conjunction with the Rules Committee minutes, it is best to pull out the Rulebook and note the two areas being tweaked. Here is a summary: A FOUL BALL (including balls fouled backward that DO go higher than the batter’s head) can be caught for an out. The ball remains live. Meanwhile, a FOUL TIP (balls fouled backward that do NOT go over the batter’s head) cannot be caught for an out. The ball is dead on a foul tip even if caught.
Donna.. I was just going by what was posted from the national rules committee meeting... and at the end of the below it says the ball is dead .. which I was wondering about and was going to e-mail you and ask
1.5 • FOUL TIP & §7.4 C. • STRIKE CALLED BY
UMPIRE – TECHNICAL CORRECTION – Proposal to modify
the wording of these sections to make them easier to understand. Suggest adding sentences to foul tip
definition to say: “A foul tip cannot be caught for an out. Note: Other balls (including one that goes over
the batter’s head) can be caught for an out.” And also change 7.4.C by removing the phrase “the final
strike” from the EFFECT sentence, which then would read: “The ball is dead.
I admit this is confusing..
one more thing I would consider is moving this from 1.29 FOUL TIP because it is actually not a foul tip .. also re-write F from 1.28 FOUL BALL .. and make F a ball that is hit and goes back over the batters head a foul ball and if caught is an out and a live ball
Curious as to why when pretty much every association has changed the rule to include foul tips for out would SSUSA change this rule?
I am correct--a foul tip (not higher than the batter's head) can be caught for an out if the batter has already used his/her courtesy foul? If the batter still has not used their courtesy foul, the foul tip is considered the courtesy if the batter has one strike. And a foul ball caught by the catcher (it must go over the head of the batter)is treated like any other caught foul fly. The ball is live and runners can advance at their own risk.
Thanks.
JohnO28: SSUSA did not change its rule. The wording change was made to make the rule clearer, but it does NOT change the rule that has been in place for decades. SSUSA still requires the ball to go over the batter’s head to become a foul ball and be caught for an out. ASA (now USA) Softball changed its rule in 2006 (removing the requirement for the ball to go over the batter’s head) to allow more opportunity for the catcher to obtain outs… Mistersoftball12: If the batter has used his courtesy foul (or waste foul), it doesn’t matter if the foul tip ball is caught; the batter already is out. Once the batter has two strikes, he gets one “free” foul — which can be a foul tip. And yes, a foul ball caught by the catcher after it has gone over the batter’s head is a live ball. Runners can advance at their own risk.B.J.: The changes will make more sense when you see them written in the 2025-26 book.
My understanding is the change was made to avoid/eliminate arguments about whether the ball went over the catcher's head, not to give a fielder more opportunities to make an out.
The replies trying to rationalize nonsense rules continue to befuddle, but as is made repeatedly clea, is this is "your" association, not the players (i.e. the customers).
