This happened to me in a high school baseball game back in the spring this year.
Bases loaded no outs
Batter hits one hopper to third
Third baseman throws to second for 1
Relay to first batter runner is safe
Play is over. One run in, one out, runners on 1st and 3rd
Or is the play over? Manager of defensive team comes out right away and claims runner on first batted out of order. We checked the official book and indeed he did bat out of order.
How would you rule on this?

I think the only OUT is the out of Order batter.
1 out. All runners return to their base (1st and 3rd). Correct hitter is at bat. IMO

the out isn't recorded on the batter who batted out of order it goes to the batter that should have legally batted.. the result is 1 out all runners return to their original bases and the batter who follows the batter that should have batted is up to bat.. even if it's the batter that batted out of order originally

Titan and BJ are correct!!

Unless I am reading this incorrectly, Titan and BJ have different outcomes and can't both be correct. I agree with BJ. Since bases were loaded, all runners return to their original bases and therefore bases would still be loaded, not just 1st and 3rd as titan suggests as the out at 2nd on the original play is negated.

You have an out at second base, plus an out on the batter who failed to bat. All other runners return to the base occupied at the time of the pitch. (Only the advancement of runners is nullified; any outs made by the defense stand.) So runners on second and third with two outs.

Donna, that does make sense. Why should the defensive team be punished by losing the out on the original play. I remember a game where the team batted out of order, the batter had gotten a hit, runs scored, and runners on bases. All was nullified, the original batter then made an out ending the inning and it changed the whole complexion of the game which we won.

I'd agree with Donna if we were playing by USA/ASA rule set.. but SSUSA does not specify that a runner called out remains out .. if they are following USA/ASA rule set then the rule should be re-written and worded properly to cover this.. below is part of the USA rule


3 Any advancement or score of a runner as a result of the incorrect batter is negated. Runners not called out must return to the last base occupied at the time of the pitch. Any runner, who is called out prior to the discovery of the infraction, remains out.

Hey B.J. Read our (SSUSA) rule closely on pages 39 and 40. You will note that it says “any advance or score made ….shall be nullified.” It does NOT nullify any outs made on the pay. (Yes, the ASA/USA rule language spells it out more clearly, but the rules are the same.)

Donna, ASA/USA spells it out more clearly?? lol
well the SSUSA rule doesn't spell it out at all


yes the SSUSA rule does say about nullifying all runs and that all runners return to their bases.. but no mention of keeping any outs that were made..

as you know many SSUSA rules have been changed for senior play and have not totally copied the USA version of the rule .. how would an umpire know that this wasn't 1 of them??

If during a game a manager questioned/protested the runner being out in the above scenario as a UIC of the tournament how would you SHOW him that you are correct... would you pull out a USA version of the rule??
I think that is something the rules committee should look at..

B.J. Love these discussions! First, I would say that our (SSUSA) rule does not negate the entire at-bat but only the advance and scoring of runners. (Outs are not listed as nullified.) Therefore the out at 2B stands. If need be, I could also pull out the USA rule, and I could point to where the SSUSA book says “For any rule or interpretation not covered in this rulebook, default to the USA Softball rule book for guidance.” So let me ask, if SSUSA wanted the outs negated, too, why doesn’t our rule book say that? (It’s not there because the outs stand.)

Donna.. me too.. yes I have used the if you cant find it in SSUSA rule book then look in USA rule book many times over the years ..

BUT when SSUSA does write out a rule as in batting out of order and it cites a) b) c) and d) in the rule why omit the part below of the USA rule..

"Any runner, who is called out prior to the discovery of the infraction, remains out."

it's only 1 more sentence and gives a FULL explanation of what an umpire should do and how SSUSA wants the rule enforced .. :)

B.J. Most likely, the SSUSA rule was picked up from ASA (now USA Softball)before ASA added the sentence saying that any outs made on the play stand. The USA rule book is much, much larger than the SSUSA book and has many extra details that have been added over the years. Thanks for suggesting that we enhance our rule. Good idea!

From what I gather it appears most of the softball associations have the same or similar rule on this, as does high school baseball.
Believe it or not I’m told Major League Baseball is different. All runners go back to the base they were at at the time of the pitch. Any outs or runs scored are negated. The proper batter is called out and the next batter is up. In my scenario above it would be bases loaded with 1 out.
Let’s say a runner is on first with no outs, improper batter comes up and hits into a double play. Manager comes out and protests team bating out of order. MLB rules state runner would go back to first and the proper batter would be called out. Instead of a double play they’d only get 1 out!!!

stick8.. I used to do USSSA about 10 yrs ago and there rule also does not cite anything about if an out is made?? just cites All base runners, if they have advanced, must return to the base occupied at the time the incorrect batter took a position in the batter’s box.

The protest has to happen before the next pitch..if the runner on first is the one that batted out of order and the play was protested after pitch was thrown ..the play on the batted ball remains

BJ, One Nation has the same rule you referenced. I
posed this to my UIC and according to him any outs during the play count. It’s the same in ssusa as Donna stated earlier. You are correct that the rule book should be more specific on this.
Gamer23, you are 100% correct.

This is fascinating. I didn't know that the SSUSA/ASA rule differed from MLB. Here's a situation: Leading off an inning, B1 is due up, but B2 bats. B2 flies out, and the defense appeals. B1 would be declared "out" as the proper batter, but does B2's batted out stand? Double play? Or, am I (as usual) missing something?

FF.. you are partially correct.. B1 is charged with the out B2 is not charged with anything and he would come to bat again "IF" he followed B1 in the lineup

FF, some of the major league rules are a bit different.
Did you know an umpire can eject another umpire from the game?

There are a few differences. For example, a baserunner struck by a fair batted ball while in contact with a "base" is out in the baseball book, but "safe" in softball. Why? Who knows? As for umpires throwing out other umpires, we can all probably think of a few who should be among the first to go.

It was told to me by an x major league umpire the reason for the rule about a runner getting hit by a batted ball was because in slowpitch softball a runner had to stay on the base until the ball was hit but not so in baseball. Now if that is the reason not sure but it does make sense.