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Online now: 1 member: Metoy16; 10 anonymousDiscussion: Westerns National Championship
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| July 20 concerenedcit1 3 posts | I am NO LONGER a Tournament player. I can still play. I'm 72 and tired of the BS. I have noticed that SSUSA is NOT getting as many teams as they did in the past for certain tournaments. Here is why I think it is happening. Over the past few months, I have noticed how players are complaining on the message Board about how the Brackets are so unfair. I just looked at the 70 Major Bracket for Westerns in Sacramento starting July 30th. I am no longer playing because I am tired of playing against teams like Timberworks in seeding games. Please do not get me wrong. Timberworks deserves their Rankings. They worked hard for it over the years. It is NOT Timberworks fault. But,I noticed in the Bracket this year, Only 2 Teams play against them in seeding games. TOTALLY UNFAIR. Why aren't they playing against ALL the Teams in the bracket? The teams they do play are most likely going to be the bottom 2 seeds for Bracket play. Those 2 teams will fight it out to see who plays the number one seeded team. Most likely it will be TIMBERWORKS, again. We all know what the outcome will probably be. I just looked at other brackets. I noticed the exact same thing in the 65 Major Bracket. Why ISN'T Cal Energy playing ALL four teams in the Bracket? Another TOTALLY UNFAIR BRACKET. I looked at the Southwest Championship bracket from this year. All the teams played at least one of the 65 Major Plus teams. It may not have been the same team, but they played one. I just looked at the Bracket for Rock n Reno for this year. They made the bracket FAIR by having the Major Plus Teams play ALL the other teams in the bracket. Senior Softball can not say it can not be done or it doesn't work. IT HAS BEEN DONE, AND IT DID WORK. For the hell of it, I just looked at the Eastern National Championship Bracket. They have more teams and they seemed to make it work. 3 seeding games. One team because they have an odd number plays 4 seeding games. The East Coast seems to have their Sh*t together. IT CAN BE DONE. All players want is a level playing field. Am I wrong for thinking this way and that there needs to be changes? |
| July 20 Mason's Grandpa 32 posts | You are not wrong. My team recently disbanded because of the SSUSA rating system. ALL THAT PLAYERS AND TEAMS WANT IS A FAIR AND EQUAL PLAYING FIELD. |
| July 20 TimMcElroy 983 posts | Short answer- You are wrong to think this way. Stand by for the long answer- The scheduling process (particularly in a 5 game guarantee situation) has everything to do with math. When you're talking about tournaments of 100, 200 or 700 teams it also demands someone that has their Sh*t together. There are a finite number of people in the country that can pull it off- and your first ever MB post suggests that you aren't one of them. In response to your questions / suggestions, here you go- Suggestion: Tournaments are shrinking. Numbers show that they are not) 65 Platinum Division @Western Nationals (2024) = 5 teams 65 Platinum Division @Western Nationals (2023) = 4 teams 70 Platinum Division @Western Nationals (2024) = 5 teams 70 Platinum Division @Western Nationals (2023) = 5 teams If you have 5 teams in a bracket (1 Major Plus and 4 Major) it IS NOT possible for the Major Plus team to play against all other teams. [this is how Westerns 65s & 70s played out] If you have 5 teams in a bracket (2 Major Plus and 3 Major) it IS possible for the Major Plus teams to play against all other teams. [this is how Rock & Reno 65s played out] Your suggestion: To make things "fair" for everyone, you're advocating for the Major Plus teams to play all other teams in the seeding round at Western Nationals. My question: As the only Major Plus team in their respective divisions, how is it "fair" for Cal Energy (65s) and Timberworks (70s) to play 4 seeding games when everyone else is playing just 2? You stated that every [70s] team in this year's Rock & Reno tournament played against a Major Plus team "AND IT DID WORK" That is false. Oregon Crabs didn't play a round robin game vs a Major Plus team and somehow still didn't finish with a high seed, or in the top half of the bracket. Your review of the EASTERN bracket is again- flawed-- - There are two 65 Major Plus teams in that group and one of them has to play 4 games while the other plays 3. Again- this is purely a math issue. > Your first post strongly suggests that you're unaware of who is who and what is what when it comes to scheduling SSUSA tournaments. The guy that wrote the EASTERN schedule is the same guy that wrote the WESTERN schedule. Circling back to my origiinal point- On this subject, I assure you that he (the master scheduler) does have his Sh*t together. |
| July 20 Woody22 4 posts | What’s not fair is a major plus team may, and probably will, eliminate a major team from having a chance to compete in their OWN divisions national championship game because there is no one for them to play in their own division. Also Cal Energy is a tremendously talented team and those two teams playing against them in the pool have a much tougher road to earn a higher seed in the bracket than the two who don’t. |
| July 20 concerenedcit1 3 posts | Tim, I agree with part of what your are saying. Why can't Cal Energy and Timerworks play every team in their bracket, then play against each other? Yes, Timberworks is a much older team. Cal Energy could give them 5 maybe 7 runs. Win or lose both teams will enter Worlds looking to become Triple Crown winners. This way Bracket play will be the 4 teams of the same level playing against each other. This way, the final 2 teams will be playing for the opportunity to win the triple crown. If there is 1 Major + team and 1 Major team at the end, that game is meaningless. Both advance looking to win the triple crown. |
| July 21 DaveDowell Men's 70 4432 posts | Woody22 ... Your theory seems to indicate that you may not fully understand how elimination brackets work ... The Major "party line" here is the premise that they can't possibly beat the Major+ teams (despite the reality that BOTH Major+ teams mentioned on this thread LOST games to Major teams in pool play in Reno this year) ... If in fact that was true, the Major+ team will never lose, and would not be in the Elimination Bracket to "eliminate" any team ... Your argument is logically inconsistent as stated ... Good luck in the Western's ... |
| July 22 jimperry19 72 posts | we are headed to Sac in a week or so as a 60M team. There is a 60M+ team in our bracket. I am sure everyone is wondering who will draw them in seeding. We have had it happen to us last year in Reno, this year in Reno, where we had to play a Major Plus team. Just the way it goes. I think we won one and lost one, and I really dont need SSUSA to fact check me because I really dont care. Just grateful to still be playing softball at a somewhat high level. Here's my issue...A customer of senior softball asks a legit question and SSUSA insults him numerous times. Come on guys, just answer the question without taking shots at people that pay a lot of money to go play your events. I think people should be able to ask questions, vent frustration on a message board without their intelligence being questioned. |
| July 22 HSquared Men's 60 155 posts | jimP19, and "this years" 60m+ is one of (if not) the best in the country. Good Luck |
| July 22 TAT22 76 posts | Question for SSUSA: When there is only 1 M+ team in their age division for any tourney why is that team not playing in the age bracket with the same team rating? Example for Western Nationals there is 1 60M+ team, is this team going to play in the 60M bracket? Which means giving runs or a player, or are they playing in the same team rating 55M bracket? |
| July 22 nickname36 109 posts | "EXACTLY" I to have dramatically downsized my tourney choices also for some of the same reasons as concerenedc1 . In my 50's all the way up to the 60's in Vegas we played 7 out of 10 tourneys at shadow rock and hollywood we never sniffed any tourney's down off the mountain. Vegas used to be fun to play at I played a lot of tourneys in Vegas from my 20's till senior ball and then we started getting stuck at shadow rock and Hollywood. We went to hemet and flagstaff and a few in phx and one in either st George or maybe Texas we folded the team as a team choice and went are serparate ways. I got hooked up with a team from hemet and been playing there a lot plus its shorter drive all so and alot and I mean alot less BS. |
| July 23 SSUSA Staff 3613 posts | TAT22 ... In the Eastern and Western National Championships, all Major+ teams are playing in their native age group, with one exception ... Eastern 75-Major+ Venom (FL) specifically requested to play younger with the 70-Major division as an additional challenge ... We granted their request ... In the West, there is exactly ONE Major+ team in the 50+, 55+, 60+, 65+ and 70+ divisions ... They are playing in their native age group and GIVING the appropriate equalizer ... Every game matters ... The top finishing Major team in these divisions will ALL earn the USA National game berth for the West, the TOC berth for their age/division and the 1st place awards ... Good luck! |
| July 23 Nicksest 4 posts | Sometimes your EQUALLIZERS are not enough depending on HOW GOOD the Major plus team is. One the other hand if you finish second in the major division and say for instance if EVERYONE plays says SOMERVILLE in the 60's division the teams that play Somerville are at a distinct DISADVANTAGE, because it will be a loss to that team. You would have to give them 15 runs as a EQUALLIZER! I have A BIGGER BEEF though, we were a 60's AAA team that had a chance to win. We added 3 players rated 3 years ago as Major plus player. These players are NOT MAJOR PLUS PLAYERS. They bumped us to Major because of NOTHING we won, or earned! They played for a team that finished 4th at worlds got bumped, knew they couldn't compete so played a age group lower, and the team disbanded. A story similar to Sonoma Crush good team But definitely not a major plus team. They were moved up couldn't compete and now moved back down. We have now played at the Major division for 1 1/2 and have a winning percentage of 33%. mostly beating bottom feeders such as ourselves. We have asked to be moved back to AAA to Compete and not be the Oakland A's of the Major division twice the beginning of the year and then again in June. We were denied and the reason was YOU ARE COMPETEING FAIRLY, not sure what the F that means, and YOU ARE COMPETIVE Maybe I am wrong but a 33% winning record isn't in my world COMPETIVE. The definition out of the dictionary for competitive is AS GOOD OR BETTER WITH ALL THAT ARE SIMALAR. WE Aren't. And now that I am on my soap box Cal Energy last year in the 60.s division won almost every game accept until they got to worlds. They had at least 10 MAJOR PLUS players on a roster playing in Major and 7 with MEDICAL REASONS why the weren't Major plus caliaber player. REALLY is that playing fairly. I think its the definition of UNFAIR. If we had won ANYTHING to be moved up then I would care but really!!!!???? |
| July 25 christom10 Men's 55 22 posts | Nicksest, unfortunately for SSUSA 'competitive' means that you're winning/losing your games by +/- 5 runs a game. Unfortunately, I don't think SSUSA looks at the complete scope of those losses. Do you only look at in age, in division games (55m vs 55m, versus 55M vs 60M+)? Do they take into consideration if a team is consistently being flip-flopped in the open and scores enough runs to eventually lose by -5? This year, Mile High in CO has only won 1 game against a 55M team. They petitioned and were told they're too competitive to drop to 55AAA. However, you had teams like Stadium (when I first started playing) that used to hang around in 50M winning everything, getting top 3 at Worlds and then being allowed to stay in major. Not only do teams want to be competitive, but they also want consistency across the board in how the rules are interpreted/applied. |
| July 31 JayPar 9 posts | easy fix, Do what ISSA does. no more fully sponsered major + teams or sandbaggers playing against teams that pay their own way. For example: my team plays 55 major. we won the Smokeys in the major gold division the last 2 yrs and just won the Eastern Nationals in Virginia (55 majors) in ISSA you can only have a roster filled with guys/gals from your own state or touching. That limits these big Major + teams from dominating because they get the best players from any state they want and can afford to fly them in. We had to play BPA which is a powerhouse major+ team out of PA. but being they couldnt use some of their players because they are spread threw out the country, we the Major team and other non major+ teams were able to compete and win 2 yrs running now. It makes a huge difference when your competing against a team that has no budget limits. We are living proof of it. |
| Aug. 1 r4pitch 96 posts | Jay Par no Issa made it easy for florida teams ..The good Major teams are Hurt..If your from Florida issa is great..Issa should have kept major + just only have Major+ at Toc worlds and smokey..The toc in jan Issa gold50-65 all won by florida teams. You got to pick up 2\3 major + guys for the smokey. No one is retiring north..Reid Miller #4 |
| Aug. 1 DaveDowell Men's 70 4432 posts | WESTERN NATIONAL'S UPDATE • After all of the wringing of hands, gnashing of teeth and predictions of doom, early returns from the outlying precincts tell a different story ... 65-Major+ Cal Energy has finished out of the money, at 4th in a 5-horse race this morning, and 70-Major+ Timberworks/Suncoast did not make it to Thursday, finishing 5th in their 5-horse race ... I guess there actually IS some value in playing games that matter ... |
| Aug. 1 Schibs Men's 65 66 posts | Every once in a while, Dave, so who is still in it? 65s |
| Aug. 1 DaveDowell Men's 70 4432 posts | 65-Platinum Final • [1] New Dawn Awning • [2] NW Elite Hitmen • [3] NorthWest Stampede • [4] Cal Energy • [5] Sin City Mob |
| Aug. 1 Schibs Men's 65 66 posts | Thanks Dave |
| Aug. 1 ffdonnie Men's 60 138 posts | Wow go figure, someone actually got better, played the game, and beat an almighty M+ team. They didn't even have to quit and start whining on social media that they couldn't do it. Bet they had fun too. |
| Aug. 2 JMM Men's 55 13 posts | Now is probably the time to seriously consider the elimination of the Major Plus division for teams 65 and over. The 65 major teams have shown they can consistently play with and beat the 65 major plus teams. Timberworks finishing last to all of the major teams this week. Neither team is sponsored. So the arguments of not being able to compete against sponsored teams is no longer valid on both accounts. It would also eliminate what seems to be the constant need for major teams to breakup just because they got bumped up. |
| Aug. 2 Robo Men's 65 14 posts | If Major Plus divisions 65 and over were eliminated I assume that would also mean teams couldn't recruit players from everywhere? I think that's one of the reasons Major Plus teams are usually so dominant. |
| Aug. 3 DaveDowell Men's 70 4432 posts | Woody22 ... We're not doing "insult posts" today, so yours went away ... |
| Aug. 3 concerenedcit1 3 posts | Sorry Guys, I did not mean for my post to start a uproar. I read the post that WOODY22 posted. It made me think. I went back to read it again and it was gone. I have a few questions for SSUSA. Why was his post removed? Was there a word that was not true? Isn't this site for players to voice their opinions and ask questions? I think it's called FREEDOM of SPEECH. As you know, I stopped playing due to the UNFAIRNESS in the Major brackets. I watched some of the games at Westerns. There were quite a few good and balanced games being played. But, the Majority of them were in 65 AAA Bracket. With all the fuss about Cal Energy, I decided to watch some of their games. Cal Energy DESTROYED teams. I did see them lose on Thursday morning and get knocked out of the Tournament. I asked one player on Cal Energy a question after the game. With you guys beating the crap out of teams, why did they play curtain players out of position? I was told it was because they had to play 4 games that day. They wanted to rest some of their guys. It is quite obvious. It BACKFIRED. They also said that they were all nothing games because the automatically Won Westerns. Now, with a straight face, you tell me that was fair. |
