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Discussion: Does the run count?

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Aug. 21
The real deal
Men's 70
114 posts
Does the run count?
Runner at 2nd base, 2 out, and batter hits a gapper. Slow runner at 2nd base scores at the same time the fast batter / runner misses 2nd base while on his way to 3rd base. On appeal, the ump calls batter / runner out for missing 2nd base. Does the run score?
Aug. 21
Mason's Grandpa

30 posts
Does the run count?
YES. It is an appeal play. NOT a force out
Aug. 22
stick8

1992 posts
Does the run count?
Masons Grandpa is correct.
Run scores
Aug. 23
Turning2
Men's 70
204 posts
Does the run count?
Applying SSUSA Rule set 1.1 Appeal play, A.1 & 5 along with Rule set 5.7 Scoring of runs, B. Note, I have no run scoring.

An appeal may be made after a third out to negate a run scoring.
Aug. 23
B.J.

1108 posts
Does the run count?
Turning2.. the run would score.. it's considered a timing play and the run scored before appeal at 2b ..

the only time the run would not score was if the BR had missed 1B which is the only base the BR was forced to advance to
Aug. 24
Turning2
Men's 70
204 posts
Does the run count?
BJ - disagree, per Rule sets referenced above, an appeal resulting in a third out in an inning nullifies the run as the original posted scenario is laid out. Read the rules and see if you don't agree. thanks
Aug. 24
B.J.

1108 posts
Does the run count?
T2.. no I don’t agree ..

when a run would not score on an 3rd out appeal is if a runner or in this scenario the BR is FORCED to advance to the next base (1B) and misses that base going to the next base… in this scenario, the BR was safe at 1B (no more force out) and advanced to third base but missed 2B so therefore there is no force out and the run would score because now it becomes a timing play, and again in this scenario the appeal was made after the runner from second base had already scored
Aug. 24
B.J.

1108 posts
Does the run count?
T2.. I forgot to add that you have the correct rules set .. read 5.7 2
Aug. 24
Turning2
Men's 70
204 posts
Does the run count?
BJ - this is a third out situation, not a timing play, maybe your buddy DD or maybe Tim will comment. I’ll stand by my position supported by the rules that I cited.
Aug. 24
mck71
Men's 60
345 posts
Does the run count?
T2 - Here is what BJ is referring to (correctly I might add). As described by OP, this is NOT a force play, so ONLY way the appeal would negate the run was IF appeal was made PRIOR to lead runner scoring and in this instance, that is not the case. Has happened to my team a few times!

5.7 Scoring of runs
B No run shall be scored if the third out of the inning is the result of:
1. A batter-runner being called out prior to reaching first base or any other runner forced out due to the batter becoming a batter-runner.
2. A runner being put out by a tag or live ball appeal play PRIOR to the lead runner crossing the scoring line or touching the scoring plate.
3. A preceding runner is declared out on appeal involving a force play.
Aug. 24
Turning2
Men's 70
204 posts
Does the run count?
READ 5.7.B NOTE. don’t use part of a rule set, use the entire rule set
Aug. 24
B.J.

1108 posts
Does the run count?
1 last time... T2 yes this part is included ... 3. NOTE: An appeal may be made after the third out in order to nullify a run.

but also as you said use the WHOLE RULE read the requirements of #3 that explains why the run WOULD NOT score

here's how this would work.. after the run had scored and the BR was on 3rd the defense would appeal to the umpire that the BR missed 2B on his way to 3rd.. the umpire would grant the appeal and call batter out for missing 2B for the 3rd out and say the run would score ON WHAT IS CONSIDERED A TIME PLAY ...BECAUSE .. as it states above #3 THAT NO RUN SHALL SCORE..."IF" 3. A preceding runner is declared out on appeal involving a FORCE PLAY ... the BR missing 2b WAS NOT A FORCE PLAY
Aug. 25
Turning2
Men's 70
204 posts
Does the run count?
Two Rule sets apply - 1.1.A.5 which has NO requirement for the third out appeal to nullify a run scoring to be on a forced play. ANY of the infractions listed in the rule set that are appealed and produce the 3rd out appeal can negate a run scoring during the same play. Missing a base is one of these infractions, does not matter if a preceding or trailing runner.
Aug. 25
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4330 posts
Does the run count?
T2 ... The Rulebook §1.1 A.5. you reference is a DEFINITION ... If a DEFINITION is potentially inconsistent with your interpretation of an actual RULE in the book, the RULE takes precedence ... B.J. (and others) are correct here ... This factual circumstance at a field where I'm serving as the Director or being asked to decide as a member of a Protest Committee is going to be ruled as a RUN SCORED ...
Aug. 25
TimMcElroy

953 posts
Does the run count?
Runner at 2nd base, 2 out, and batter hits a gapper. Slow runner at 2nd base scores at the same time the fast batter / runner misses 2nd base while on his way to 3rd base. On appeal, the ump calls batter / runner out for missing 2nd base. Does the run score?

^^^ In the scenario, I agree with BJ, DD and mck71. The run counts.
Aug. 25
stick8

1992 posts
Does the run count?
T2 your explanation regarding the described scenario in the first post would be correct if the batter-runner missed first base and the defense appealed it. Keep in mind the batter-runner is not required to go to second, he could have chosen to stay at first.
Here’s one I had this past Monday:
Runners at 1st and 3rd, 1 out.
Batter hits a fly ball to left, fairly deep. Left fielder catches it for the 2nd out.
Runner at third tags and scores. Runner at first thought there were 2 outs and was running to second without tagging.
Throw comes into second and they throw to first to double up the runner at first who never tagged.
Runner at third crossed the plate before the 3rd out was recorded at first,
Does the run count?

Aug. 26
B.J.

1108 posts
Does the run count?
stick.. yes run scores.. time play
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