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Discussion: 2023 TOC

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Dec. 13
bobbyz24

24 posts
2023 TOC
Just wondered why SSUSA and ISSA would have the TOCs on the same weekend in Fl this upcoming year? Is there a good reason for this?
Dec. 15
DirkPitt

33 posts
2023 TOC
Makes no sense Bobby. Only reason I can think of is the two groups didn't communicate. FHC 60's is that weekend also. It's really screwing a lot of teams as many guys play multiple age groups and now they have to choose one tournament over the other. I've talked to three teams that planned to play SSUSA and are now short players because some of their guys are playing in the other TOC. It's going to be very hard to find players as most travel players are already committed to one or the other.

Stupid is the word that comes to mind...
Dec. 15
DieselDan
Men's 75
605 posts
2023 TOC
Might have to ask the organization that was seconded to schedule their TOC.
Dec. 15
bobbyz24

24 posts
2023 TOC
I looked up the previous years, and ISSA has kept the same wknd the past 3 years, only SSUSA has changed their weekends 3 diff times in the past 3 years!..Seems to me theres an issue between the 2 groups ..They both know whats what, and 1 seems to not care!
Just the same with the junk softballs being used this past year!
And I did ask SSUSA why the same weekend, with no reasonable explanation!
Dec. 15
titanhd
Men's 60
640 posts
2023 TOC

Check your facts.

"3 changes in the last three years"???

SSUSA has always been the first weekend of Feburary. The only change was last year due to Covid.

2017 2/8 -2/12
2018 2/7- 2/11
2019 2/6 -2/10
2020 2/5 -2/9
2021 1/20 -21
2022 2/1 -2/5
Dec. 15
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4330 posts
2023 TOC
The upcoming SSUSA T.O.C. is Original Tournament of Champions XVII ... After the first two years (2007 and 2008), the five day schedule of Instructional Sessions (Wednesday) and Skills Competition (Thursday) and the three day tournament (Friday thru Sunday) has generally started on the Wednesday falling in the date range of February 3rd thru 9th ... Exceptions, by one week, were made in a couple of years when there was an NFL Super Bowl in Florida because of the hotel cost impacts ...
2007 • 02/23
2008 • 02/15
2009 • 02/07 (Super Bowl: 02/01 - Tampa)
2010 • 02/10 (Super Bowl: 02/07 - Miami)
2011 • 02/09
2012 • 02/08
2013 • 02/06
2014 • 02/05
2015 • 02/04
2016 • 02/03
2017 • 02/08
2018 • 02/07
2019 • 02/06
2020 • 02/05 (Super Bowl: 02/02 - Miami)
2021 • 01/20 (Super Bowl: 02/07 - Tampa)
2022 • 02/09
2023 • 02/01
The other association's T.O.C. is a much newer "junior" event that has plagiarized both the SSUSA T.O.C. concept and event name since its inception ... SSUSA also published their 2023 dates months before the other association did and they bear, in our view, the burden of avoiding a conflict, unless that wasn't their intent ...

Dec. 15
bobbyz24

24 posts
2023 TOC
YES TITAN YOUR 2022 DATES ARE WRONG! IT WAS FEB 9-13
Dec. 15
r4pitch

92 posts
2023 TOC
Issa has always been the weekend before super bowl. the Nfl went a xtra week 3 years ago thats why they moved to 1st weekend in Feb.
Dec. 15
TimMcElroy

953 posts
2023 TOC
Couple of comments from a guy that has been working at SSUSA's Tournament of Champions for longer than the ISSA season opener has existed.

In it's 17th year of partnering with Polk County / Central Florida Sports, the SSUSA Tournament of Champions has been held in February 16 times. 16 of the 17 events have been played in early February with the lone exception coming in 2021. If you're looking for a reasonable explanation, here you go- Super Bowl LV in Tampa. Keeping the traditional dates would have presented a financial hardship for TOC participants that needed to book airfare, hotels and rental cars.

Roughly 6 years ago, ISSA began holding it's own tournament in Florida. They gave it a similar name, scheduled it a few weeks prior to the SSUSA event, offered it in the next town over and even incorporated many of the same attractions (skills challenges, all-star games, Wounded Warriors).

Just 1 year ago, ISSA moved it's tournament into February. It's unclear why they chose to do so, or why they chose to schedule it on top of the FHC 60s tournament (Feb 5-6, 2022). In my view, there is a pattern here.

Asking SSUSA to justify how or why it plans the Original Tournament of Champions the way it does is short sighted in my view. These questions should be asked of the other guy.
Dec. 15
Rob64
Men's 50
218 posts
2023 TOC
Did you get both your questions answered Bobby? I'll make it simple.

1. Because they can.

2. Yes

Dec. 15
TooOldToFight
Men's 60
23 posts
2023 TOC
Maybe I'm missing something here but not clear why SSUSA is taking a beating in this post. Are there some things I would like to see done differently by SSUSA? Yeah, I'd like to see game by game scores posted for all tournaments. But beating them up for continuing to hold a tournament the beginning of February when that's what they've done for years with rare exception doesn't make a lot of sense to me. They're not the association that came late to the table and moved their event on top of SSUSA's. Plus, I wonder how we'll all feel one day when the people who run SSUSA decide they've taken enough unwarranted abuse and they decide to close up shop and walk away. I know how much time and effort it takes to run a team, can't imagine what's required to run an entire softball association, so maybe kinder messages are in order. Just a thought.
Dec. 16
Rob64
Men's 50
218 posts
2023 TOC
Not sure how SSUSA is taking a beating who blamed SSUSA, there have been 10 replies who's listening or asking for it to shut it down! Who's beating them up? They're not going anywhere! They will be here when we are not!
I'm sure Bobbys question was because he wants to play more Quality Softball Tournaments throughout the year, especially being from the Great Lakes Region where weather is the issue.

Hopefully this would open a line of communication to make both parties happy and members of both associations but I would be surprised.
Dec. 16
r4pitch

92 posts
2023 TOC
I dont care what one anyone plays. issa is in 12th year and every year it is the week before super bowl..Dont know or care why they do this. That is what they do. Enjoy the game we play.The more torneys the better...
Dec. 16
DirkPitt

33 posts
2023 TOC
I didn't take any comment as beating up SSUSA. I only hear disappointment and encouragment for collaboration in the future. The SSUSA tournament is a great tournament. The ISSA tournament is not a real TOC. Teams don't have to win to participate and it's not based on 2022 rosters. There are a few teams participating in an age group there that they did not even participate in during 2022.

The challenge we're encountering is because ISSA is 2023 rosters we have players who are moving up in age group or changing teams and they are having to chose between the "last" 2022 tournament or the "first" 2023 tournament. It seems most are more inclined to move forward with their new team(s).

Can't change anything, just observations.

One thing I don't agree with is blaming the second organization to schedule. Both groups know it's in their mutual interests to not overlap and either group could have reached out to the other. That may have happened but per Dave's & Tim's comments above, it doesn't sound like it did. Going forward, it is suggested that you work together or players are going to have to pick sides, which isn't what any of us want to do.
Dec. 16
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4330 posts
2023 TOC
Thanks Dirk ... We didn't take anything above as anyone trying to beat up on us ... We just answered the OP ... But let's make it easy on everyone ... SSUSA's Original Tournament of Champions XVIII will VERY LIKELY run from Wednesday, February 7th thru Sunday February 11, 2024 ... Super Bowl LVIII is also on February 11th in Las Vegas ... A possible alternative will be one week prior: January 31st thru February 4th ... Florida Half Century and the promoter of the imitation T.O.C. now have almost 14 months to figure out a way to avoid a conflict, if that's what they want ...

Dec. 17
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1438 posts
2023 TOC
Does anyone really believe that NSA, USA Softball, or Utrip coordinate with each other on young guy softball? Why hold senior softball associations to a different standard? They are competitors in the same market.
Dec. 19
bkb555

301 posts
2023 TOC
whatever teh reason, the 2 organizations should have compromised about the date UNLESS they wanted to do an unofficial poll and see which tourney draws more teams....a lot of guys play both organizations and even a few more so it would have been in the best interests of the PLAYERS to schedule the tourneys on different dates...some guys make it a 2 weekend trip and do both.....I don't like the backbiting of one organization over the other when all we want to do is play competitive ball no matter what the name of the tourney is....besides, most guys consider Las Vegas the cream of the crop tourney and the games in February are really just the beginning of a new season for many guys
Dec. 23
Perl

212 posts
2023 TOC
If the two TOC’s were scheduled a week apart it’s unlikely many teams could afford to attend both. Imagine this head to head TOC conflict isn’t over.

ISSA TOC has 172 teams entered.
Going to interesting to see how many the SSUSA TOC draws.

Hopefully both are successful.

Two Senior Softball Heavyweight organizations going at it.

BTW, don’t these organizations have long term contracts with cities including dates?



Dec. 24
BH44
Men's 50
75 posts
2023 TOC
Perl,

Differce is ISSA TOC - any team can go even if you didn't qualify or win anything while SSUSA the Origianl TOC only TOC champs can go not second place or pay your money and go. ISSA money grab / SSUSA you have to earn it.
Dec. 24
Dbax
Men's 65
2102 posts
2023 TOC
Exactly. ISSA is not a true TOC. If they have more teams that is why.
Dec. 24
DieselDan
Men's 75
605 posts
2023 TOC
Similar the the Senior Games. You may not have finished in the top three of your event(s), but you can still go. It was that way years ago. Maybe it's changed.
Dec. 24
Rob64
Men's 50
218 posts
2023 TOC
What tournaments aren't about money? Which tournaments do you have to qualify to play in other than TOC? I'm not going to either event. I'll be home eating an Apple while your eating a Tomato which isn't a true fruit!
Dec. 24
Rob64
Men's 50
218 posts
2023 TOC
Or is it?
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