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Discussion: Pinch Hitter

Posted Discussion
Nov. 21, 2022
DJ12
9 posts
Pinch Hitter
Scenario: new pitcher comes into the game top of 5. At the bottom half pitcher that entered the game in the top half is first to bat. Team subs for a pinch hitter (I thought you had to make a plate appearance before you could get a pinch hitter), team announces the number of the pinch hitter and he is entered into the game. The team then decides that they want the pitcher to bat, my guess is they new there was a rules violation. Here's my question, once the pinch hitter is announced aren't they required to bat? And in this case it's possibly an out because the pitcher is required to bat. Thoughts?
Nov. 22, 2022
mck71
296 posts
DJ - OK, so good question and I assume someone with specific SSUSA rules can state the actual rule for you but my contribution based on my experience playing is that this is NOT Major League Baseball meaning that while it's very nice that the team announces things (batter, CR, and pinch hitters) but until either the batter steps into the box and takes a pitch, they can do whatever they want (same as a CR announced but only legal when they touch the bag for teammate they are running for).

Some teams are very organized and do this stuff without issue but we are old guys/gals playing and we aren't perfect which allows the stipulation to announce but changes can be made until they take a pitch or stand on a base.

And I don't believe there is a rule where a player that enters a game has to bat before being replaced.

I have been wrong before but if I was umpiring that would be my interpretation.
Nov. 22, 2022
DJ12
9 posts
Thanks mck71
Nov. 22, 2022
k man
Men's 65
318 posts
Was the new pitcher a substitute for the original pitcher? If so and there was a pinch hitter for the 2nd pitcher. Correct me if I'm wrong, then the team will have lost both pitchers in their lineup as re-entry only works with the original lineup. I almost made that mistake last year as I am relatively new in managing one of our teams.
Nov. 22, 2022
B.J.
1046 posts
they are not pitch hitters they are considered substitutes and a substitute is considered in the game when the Mgr. tells the HP umpire... no plate appearance is required for a player who came in while the team was playing defense in the field and they then can be substituted when they come to bat.. I believe once the sub has been announced he must at least take 1 pitch before he can be substituted for but not by the player who he subbed for since he himself was a sub and cannot re-enter ... boy is that confusing..lol
Nov. 22, 2022
B.J.
1046 posts
4.7 SUBSTITUTES
A substitute may take the place of a player whose name is in his team's batting order. The following regulations govern player substitutions:

A. The manager or team representative of the team making the substitution shall immediately notify the plate umpire at the time a substitute enters. The plate umpire shall then report the change to the scorer prior to the next pitch. If the violation is discovered prior to a pitch being made (legal or illegal), there is no penalty and the illegal substitute shall be declared legal.

B. Substitute players will be considered in the game when reported to the plate umpire. A player will not violate the substitution rule until one legal or illegal pitch has been thrown. The use of an illegal substitute is handled as an
appeal by the offended team while the player is in the game. If the team manager or player in violation informs the umpire prior to the offended team's protest, there is no violation regardless of how long the player or
players were illegally in the game
Nov. 24, 2022
mck71
296 posts
Thx BJ.

I was thinking that according to OP, the manager realized EXACTLY what k man described (in a panic), he wanted to substitute for the pitcher (possibly a weak hitter) and then realized he might lose both pitchers? So my question: Pitcher B is substituted for Pitcher A in top of 5th, bottom of 5th Hitter A bats for Pitcher B. Once that at bat is completed, can either Pitcher A or Pitcher B come back into the game legally? BEFORE the substitute at bat, I have a legal reentry of Pitcher A for Pitcher B but assume that once Hitter A completes his at bat Pitcher B can reenter but now Pitcher A is burned (i.e. and Pitcher B has to finish the game without another legal substitute, meaning if you have another player, than Pitcher B would also be burned if substituted again by Hitter A or another Player that hasn't been in the game yet)?
Nov. 24, 2022
B.J.
1046 posts
No, neither pitcher can re-enter at the pitching position ... pitcher A may re-enter but at another defensive position, pitcher B is done for that game and team must come up with a new pitcher
Nov. 24, 2022
Rob64
Men's 50
170 posts
What is the rule number for a pitcher leaving that position and going to another can't return as a pitcher, am I missing something? (maybe I'm missing the part about playing baseball not men's softball). If I have 2 pitchers on my team and they're in the lineup I can pitch the 1,3,5,and 7th inning and he can pitch the 2,4,6 innings. I've seen pitchers struggle to start and get relieved and return to finish all the time! Batting order has to be in same spot upon reentering but anybody in the lineup can play any position at anytime as many times as they want. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the scenario.
Nov. 24, 2022
B.J.
1046 posts
Rob64, my mistake yes the starting pitcher may re-enter.. I was thinking of if the pitcher was removed by the umpire
Nov. 27, 2022
DJ12
9 posts
Thanks everyone, this was an interesting conversation. So you know, pitcher B came into the game for a defensive player and not pitcher A (although he did come in to pitch). So it would appear all rules were followed.
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