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Online now: 8 members: Dan'sFriend 73, Dick6, Eazy, Purplehaze@55, Schibs, TABLE SETTER 11, Tricia2710, dillydilly; 96 anonymousDiscussion: How would you rule the call
| Posted | Discussion |
| March 22, 2022 Larry S 54 posts | How would you rule the call Local Senior League. Runner on first. Batter hits a fly to left, fielder appears to make a shoestring catch. Umpire signals a catch. Left fielder throws the ball to second to force runner and says I did not catch the ball. The first base runner retreated back to first thinking the ball was caught. How would you rule? |
| March 22, 2022 DaveDowell Men's 70 4317 posts | Presuming there was no second umpire on the game for consultation, that's a catch because the umpire ruled it as such ... I've got the batter out and a runner on first base, having retreated back after the "catch" ... |
| March 22, 2022 B.J. 1107 posts | I agree with D2 and even if it was a 2 man system the base umpire should never make a call on the catch/no catch unless the HP umpire points to him for help .. so once the batter was called out on the catch the runner must return to their base at the time of the pitch or be in jeopardy of being called out on appeal for leaving the base before 1st touch.. |
| March 22, 2022 1bounce Men's 55 35 posts | Sorry bj but that is the base umpire call. When he makes the call he raises his right hand with fist. The home plate umpire then yells batter is out. If no catch then base umpire makes the safe sign with both arms extended. At this point the home plate umpire rules if the runner tagged or not |
| March 22, 2022 B.J. 1107 posts | 1bounce.. I disagree .. in 99% of 2 man systems the HP umpire has all fly ball catches.. all foul ball calls .. and all time outs and 99% of the time he is responsible for lead runner tag ups.. the only time a base umpire should make that call is if it is a tough sun field and it has been discussed pre-game between both umpires... then when the ball is hit the base umpire is to leave the IF and go out to watch the catch and when that happens the HP umpire is now responsible for ALL calls in the IF.. I would agree with you if this was a 4man system.. |
| March 22, 2022 1bounce Men's 55 35 posts | Negative bj. I’ve worked 1,2,3,and 4 man. Your assuming the home plate umpire is making the call because he verbally makes it but he is going after the hand signals of the base umpire. |
| March 22, 2022 B.J. 1107 posts | 1bounce.. so you are saying that HP watches the catch but then looks at BU for the call and then gives the call?? so when all of this is happening where is the BU positioned?? Is he button hooking into the IF side of the base line for a possible advancement of the runner on 1B and tag play at 2B after 1st touch? also what is your system for multiple runners and tag ups?? |
| March 22, 2022 Hank Heffner 11 posts | 1 man of course home plates call. 2 man home plate has catch no catch, foul or fair unless base umpires goes out on the catch. Look any any umpires manual. If base umpire is watching catch he will never see runner missing 1st base. |
| March 22, 2022 Larry S 54 posts | Just to clarify, there was one ump at home plate. |
| March 22, 2022 B.J. 1107 posts | 1bounce.. SSUSA does not have a positioning manual so this is from USA/ASA and it describes as I said above "IF" the BU is going to make a call on a fly ball he is to GO OUT and leave the IF and HE makes the call on the catch not the HP umpire after getting a signal ... also as I stated earlier when he does this the HP umpire then runs a 1 man system and is responsible for all calls and tag ups in the IF .. IMO it's a horrible system to use especially with multiple runners on base USA/ASA POSITIONING: FLY BALL TO THE OUTFIELD: P - Move out from behind the plate to get the best angle and distance possible on the fly ball. Responsible for fair or foul and catch or no catch and any play at the plate. If the BU goes out, revert to the One Umpire System. B - Decide whether to go to the outfield to make the call or pick up the ball and glance at the runner as you hustle inside the diamond to buttonhook at a minimum depth of 10-12 feet. Continue to alternate between the ball and the runner keeping all four elements in front of you. Be prepared to move parallel to the baseline staying ahead of the runner as you are responsible for any play at 1B, 2B, or 3B. |
| March 22, 2022 Hank Heffner 11 posts | BJ you are 100% correct. |
| March 23, 2022 stick8 1992 posts | Larry if the umpire ruled it a catch, it’s a catch! What the left fielder says doesn’t matter. |
| March 23, 2022 The Screamer5 Men's 60 69 posts | That's the mechanic we've always used. All outfield fly ball catches or non catches or fair or foul balls are called by the plate umpire unless the base umpire goes out to the outfield (maybe on a sinking line drive for a closer look to assist the HP umpire)...at which point the BU stays out and HP reverts to a One Man Umpire System. (This is ALWAYS discussed in the umpires' pre-game because it can possibly cause a lot of confusion if the umpires are not on the same page with this.) Right or wrong...if the umpired initially ruled it catch, it's a catch. What the fielder says is irrelevant. |
| March 24, 2022 DieselDan Men's 75 602 posts | Yes, a pre game discussion should always have the plate umpire remind their partner that they have the ball and the base ump is watching batter/base runners touch the bases. As mentioned, the responsibilities switch on a sinking ball. Problem is, most plate umps are still watching the ball. Watching base touches is a lost skill in far too many senior games. It's not difficult to move from BEHIND the plate to line up a possible tag on a caught ball whether it's a one umpire or two person system. ("Hey Dan, I need you to cover a business league in Dorchester." Third inning, batter hits a a LD to right center and tries for second. He slides and is called out. He rolls over to look at me and basically says, one, good call blue and two, where the frig did you come from?) If those umps, who don't leave their home plate position, did move out front, it might cut down the missed calls, especially at first. You can't get a good view from behind the batter as to whether the batter did or did not touch first before the catch. Team complaining might drop some if the umpire makes calls in the same zip code where the play is being made. |
