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Online now: 5 members: Golfman, SB#8, TABLE SETTER 11, TonyA, dillydilly; 150 anonymousDiscussion: Ground rule double or ???
| Posted | Discussion |
| Feb. 1, 2022 BillC48 16 posts | Ground rule double or ??? We have an outfield fence with two gaps where the fence overlaps itself so that outfielders may more easily retrieve home run balls. Normally if a batter hits a ground ball or line drive through the outfield and it winds up going through one of these gaps or under/over the fence, the proper call is ground rule double. However, last week one of the outfielders attempted to block a sharply hit ground ball with his foot. The ball was deflected a bit but kept on going and happened to find one of the gaps in the fence. The umpire on the field awarded the batter-runner third base, stating that by the time the deflected ball went through the fence the b/r was already past first base. What's the proper call? |
| Feb. 1, 2022 Schibs Men's 65 63 posts | BILLC48 - once a player attempts a motion towards the ball and touches it whether it be with his hand, glove, foot or anything else, it now becomes a judgement call for the umpire and the 1+1 guideline is used, the base the runner is going to plus one base. Based on your description of the play the umpire made the right call. |
| Feb. 2, 2022 Turning2 Men's 70 204 posts | Bill - appears that you have properly addressed the umpires instructions in your second sentence based on the ground rules for this field. It would make no difference if the ball was touched or untouched when it passed thru the staggered opening in the outfield fence. Batter awarded a ground rule double and all base runners awarded two bases from where they were started when ball was hit. Umpires enforce the rules as presented to them by the association, league, and ground rules that are pertinent to the game at hand, they don't massage their ruling based on where the batter/runner may have been when the ball actually went out of the playing field. |
| Feb. 2, 2022 Schibs Men's 65 63 posts | Turning2 - respectfully, the attempt to play the ball and kicking it through the opening of a fence whether man made or not goes against the logic of ground rules in most parks I played in. Perhaps I should tell my players if they have no chance of fielding the ball safely with the batter possibly getting a triple or more to kick it over the fence. Last year in Knoxville a home run was ruled not just over the fence, but the net protection above and beyond the fence, there may be rules that escape logic in some parks, but this one takes an on the field play out of the hands of the umpire, hard to believe. |
| Feb. 3, 2022 Turning2 Men's 70 204 posts | Schibs - the original post is what is being discussed and based on how this is presented with the ground ball going out of play, again whether touched or not by a player on the field, the resulting effect is the enforcement of the ground rules for this game on this field. There are rules for players intentionally and unintentionally carrying a ball out of the field of play, not applicable here in the original post but very much in effect in your new scenario of having your outfielders to kick soccer style out of the field of play. Post your scenario and have everyone respond on applicable rules and effect. |
| Feb. 5, 2022 Schibs Men's 65 63 posts | Turning2 - Let's further breakdown the question from BillC48. First of all, he never states it is a ground rule; "NORMALLY if a batter hits a ground ball or line drive through the outfield and it winds up going through one of these gaps or under/over the fence, the proper call is ground rule double". I AGREE it is reasonable to assume he is addressing the ground rule. Secondly, it is not specifically stated whether the "kicked ball" was an egregious attempt by the player to circumvent the rule. It is reasonable to assume since he kicked the ball the umpire's call is related to the player's attempt at manipulating the direction of the ball. Perhaps my original answer could have been more descriptive, however based on the description given it is reasonable to assume there was more to the call than described, just like the ground rule inference. |
| Feb. 5, 2022 Turning2 Men's 70 204 posts | Schibs - i'm in agreement with what you have stated, Normally - ground rule double, agree. Original post stated that the fielder tried "to block" the ball, not "kick the ball", which i have seen other Sr outfielders try to stop or block a ball with their foot when they couldn't otherwise reach with glove. Either way, the ball traveled into a dead ball area that results in the ruling below: It's simply a ground rule double, umpire should have stopped the batter-runner at second base, all runners move up two bases from the original base that they occupied at time the ball was hit. It's all good, sometimes the original posts are sketchy and leave a lot to the imagination since we're not there to see the play. Umpires need to be well versed in the league rules as well as the ground rules in effect at each park they umpire. |
| Feb. 6, 2022 Schibs Men's 65 63 posts | Turning2 - I appreciate the input, a coach can never have enough information. Even though before every game the ground rules are supposed to be discussed, many times they are not. From this point forward, only because it happens so often, I'm going to clarify the openings in fences and how the umpire will rule. Too often it makes a difference in the final result the umpires call, so I will do a better job of documenting the ground rules in the beginning. Stay well and thanks again, Tom |
