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Discussion: Dont blame SSUSA for the ball problem.

Posted Discussion
June 29, 2021
Bobby Buggs
89 posts
Dont blame SSUSA for the ball problem.
The problem is BSN really does not want to be in the softball business. They dont care about it and see it as a pain in the ass more than anything. They refused to stock my Evil version of the microcell which would have been a prefect replacement when the stote sold out. Trust me I know first hand whats going on as its negative impact will be costing Evil Sports a few hundred thousand in sales this year. So while you may not agree 100% of the time with what SSUAS does you can not blame them for this, they are doing the best they can.
June 29, 2021
JamesLG
414 posts

I don't believe players are blaming SSUSA for the shipment of balls not arriving in time for these tournaments. I believe the biggest complaint is there are much better options readily available than the ball we have been using in these tournaments. A used league game ball is a much better options than the Dud we been using.

James
June 29, 2021
Bruce M
Men's 55
88 posts
Bob - you make the best softballs. You know I am a fan. I'm not blaming SSUSA for anything. However, in this circumstance....BSN has ROCKS (SSUSA Stamped) in stock for $.01 more expensive than the Stotes. So, while normally Rocks are only allowed in Vegas....an exception should be made...

https://www.bsnsports.com/ssusa-softball-12-44-375

$59.99 per dozen... before any discounts. Not sure how many dozens they have...but plenty of us out there could be brining our own SSUSA Stamped balls to the tournaments...

Let's innovate and adapt to supply issues....
June 29, 2021
SALSAKID49
Men's 60
161 posts
Bobby,
Thank you...

Jose
June 29, 2021
Bobby Buggs
89 posts
I would venture to guess there is not enough of that Xrock in stock to fill the need. Beyond that I dont know.
June 29, 2021
Bobby Buggs
89 posts
Just tried to order 50, this is what it said, Available 09/15/2021
June 30, 2021
SSUSA Staff
3225 posts
Thanks Bobby ... The seriousness of the issue is illustrated perfectly when you can't get 50 of "your own softballs", while we're trying to order over 100 cases (600 dozen) X-Rock balls for the SSUSA World's and a similar quantity of our "standard" ball for the other SSUSA events between now and mid-September ... We will continue to provide an acceptable ball on a tournament-by-tournament basis that makes competitive and economic sense ...

We hope that someone has the answer to the global import shipping crisis that results in the Microcell technology SSUSA ball becoming available again soon ... We're reasonably confident we don't have that global-imports answer and we would be very surprised if anyone posting here does either ... As mentioned a few days ago, in the interest of maintaining a level playing field, we will NOT be running B.Y.O.B. events ... We certainly respect any play/no-play decisions teams may make as a result, but we will solely determine and apply the competitive terms of our events ... Play safely and have fun everyone!

June 30, 2021
bogie
Men's 65
427 posts
I appreciate SSUSA's committment to getting the tournament schedule back on track after a horrid Covid year. They always do a great job. I think the ball affects the power of 65 and older teams the most, with the younger athletes still powering homeruns. Still a great game and with patience... lumber, softballs and toilet paper will soon be in good supply.
June 30, 2021
NYGNYY
182 posts
Thank you for the response SSUSA Staff above regarding the Worlds and the Rock which is an event a little less than 3 months out.
Based upon your response and entry fee timelines can you please share what ball is going to be used in Sacramento end of July? The entry fee must be paid by Tuesday July 6th. Thanks and Happy 4th
July 1, 2021
bkb555
293 posts
obviously there is a difference among SSUSA balls within the organization, otherwise the BYOB option would be an option....when I played in a tourney a few weeks ago, I brought my SSUSA Trump stotes from an earlier tourney that were unused and went to the head umpire and asked if we could use them if we ran out of the Trump stote USA ball...'ABSOLUTELY NOT" was his reply...so right there and then I knew there was a difference between Trump balls......it may come down this year to whomever has the quantity of balls for a tourney, will be the supplier for that weekend regardless of performance....stinks for players and teams that use their HRs correctly
July 1, 2021
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3827 posts
bkb555 ... Bingo! ... The differences among the various "flavors" of 44 cor/375 comp balls is precisely the reason we won't be structuring B.Y.O.B. events ... Some are simply more flavorful than others, so we'll continue the scavenger hunts and hope that a consistent supply line materializes for an acceptably performing softball ...
July 2, 2021
Bruce M
Men's 55
88 posts
With respect....the argument doesn't hold. Again, I'm only talking about SSUSA stamped balls here. Yes, there is a difference between the Stote and the Rock. Yes, 44/375 is only a "rating"...and it doesn't mean that every ball is tested at those parameters. However, by your argument above...we should only have ONE single bat. Everybody knows there is a difference between SSUSA bats...even though they have the the same parameter limitations. If that wasn't the case, people would all purchase the cheapest SSUSA stamped bats on the market. So, if SSUSA is allowing bring your own bats (SSUSA approved)....AND SSUSA has SSUSA stamped balls....you will need a better argument as to why bringing your own balls is not fair.

If I bring at SSUSA approved 2010 bat to a tournament....and someone else brings a 2021 Suncoast Once Piece or a 2021 JB ultra to a tourney...I can't go out and cry, "unfair!" So, if I bring a SSUSA stamped Rock to a tournament...and the opposing team brings something else that is approved by SSUSA....it's the same situation.

Just because someone says you "can't do it because it is unfair" isn't an argument for WHY it's unfair. I'm not saying I'm right. I'm saying I'd like to hear a good argument against brining your own SSUSA approved softballs.

July 2, 2021
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3827 posts
Also respectfully ... Bruce, this probably isn't going to sound like anything that you're going to like, but it's irrefutably true ... You saying you should be able to use any 44 cor/375 comp optic yellow softball because they are all the same is just like saying your New York Steak from Sizzler is identical to my New York Steak from Ruth Chris' Steak House ...We both know they're not the same ... SSUSA is STILL not going to structure B.Y.O.B. events, and that's a reality we would advise you to accept ... It's not going to change ...

July 2, 2021
Bruce M
Men's 55
88 posts
Thank you, Dave - while I of course accept the decision of SSUSA...I still haven't seen a valid argument against bring your own softballs. SSUSA allows bring your own bats. Above, I stated pretty clearly there is a difference between the STOTE and the ROCK. Both are SSUSA approved. There is also a difference in performance between some SSUSA stamped bats, yet we can use any SSUSA bat we want. Stating that bring your own balls (SSUSA stamped) is unfair isn't a rationale or a valid argument. I see, however, that changes will not be made regardless of the feedback. While regrettable, it is understandable. Thanks for listening.





July 3, 2021
Mikelmart
113 posts
My earlier post on this subject in another thread fell upon deaf ears so hear I go again.
Is BSN the only supplier of the Stote ball?
Can the argument be eliminated by sourcing this ball from other distributors?
If I can't get Charmin toilet paper from Costco do I go with an inferior item or do I just go to Walmart?
July 3, 2021
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3827 posts
Hi Mike ... Your post did not fall on deaf ears, but I/we apologize that we missed answering it ... We believe the "SSUSA-branded" STOTE/Trump Microcell™ technology 44 cor/375 comp. optic yellow softball is imported solely by BSN ... That may or may not be true for an "unbranded" retail option of that same particular ball ... We don't know ...

In a telephone conference call on Wednesday with the individual who represents that he "owns the microcell technology", he advised that his sole import source is (was?) also BSN ... He had a number of interesting observations and opinions, and one of them was that BSN is estimating an arrival time of mid-July for his most recent order ... Mid-July is not that far away, but recent history has not yielded any confidence that any timeline by BSN is going to happen ... That's why SSUSA is investigating/auditioning alternatives on a tournament-by-tournament basis ...

July 3, 2021
NYGNYY
182 posts
D2. This story gets better by the day. The supposed owner of the product uses BSN as his sole supplier and it sounds like neither one knows what’s going on or trusts the other at point in time.
This could turn into a HBO mini-series. Especially since BSN was the company that did the background check on the ball we used in Reno. Interesting!
I appreciate your last line and I am glad to hear SSUSA is looking into alternatives. If it was my company I’d fire BSN at the first available moment. But its not.
Good luck and Happy 4th.
July 3, 2021
Dbax
Men's 65
2021 posts
To better understand BSN’s history of dealing with timelines, one just needs to look at the ad on the homepage. The 15% off deal is good through 12/31/2020.
July 3, 2021
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3827 posts
NY² ... There is more than ample evidence to conclude that BSN would much rather NOT be in the softball business at all ... The softball division ownership transition path from Anaconda Sports to Lids to BSN has resulted in less enthusiasm by each successor entity than the previous one(s) ... That brings a corresponding decline in customer care and motivation to provide the product in a timely manner ... There is no other honest way to characterize it ...

July 3, 2021
Jawood
Men's 50
937 posts
We've been waiting for our BP balls from BSN since March. Very poor customer service. Anaconda was good to deal with.
July 4, 2021
rmp0012002
Men's 50
57 posts
Is the SSUSA deal with BSN so restrictive that SSUSA can’t source balls from another supplier even though BSN can’t fulfill their contract? I also thought Buggs owned the “microcell” technology?
July 4, 2021
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3827 posts
mp#### ... The arrangement between SSUSA and BSN isn't the issue/problem ... It's the global shipping/import crisis ... And that deal isn't overly restrictive, being just an exclusive contract to provide the softballs SSUSA specifies ... Currently, there are three specified "SSUSA-branded" softballs we prefer ...

[1] The 44 cor/375 comp. STOTE/Trump microcell technology Men's ball ...
[2] The 44 cor/375 comp. STOTE/Trump X-Rock we used for Las Vegas events under a former co-promotion agreement with another softball association ... That agreement was terminated late last year, along with the obligation to use that ball in those two events ...
[3] The 52 cor/525 comp STOTE/Trump Women's softball ...

Our continuing conversations with almost every other softball company in existence reveals that they are similarly situated in their inability to get desired inventory levels of product from any China-based manufacturing source imported and available for sale ... Quite simply and as stated above, this is a global shipping and import issue ...

July 4, 2021
rmp0012002
Men's 50
57 posts
Thanks Dave. I’ve been in contact with Buggs on another board about Evil BP balls and they’re also very difficult to get so after many months I had to go to another brand. The import/customs lag looks bad for all them but out of their hands.
July 4, 2021
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3827 posts
That's a very concise and accurate analysis ... Not a lot (or anything) that can be done at the moment ... 🤞🤞
July 4, 2021
JamesLG
414 posts

Thanks for all the information.

Dave I guess my question would be isn't there a better ball available than the dud we have been using? We do appreciate your efforts on this issue. Our BP softballs that have been hit hundreds of times are much better than the tournament ball we been using.

Thanks:

James
July 5, 2021
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3827 posts
That's a tough call James because it's based largely on opinion, and opinion rather than fact is what normally drives this commentary ... Every retailer who can (purportedly) scratch together enough inventory to meet one tournament inventory demand tells us, unsurprisingly, "..It's the best ball in the game and you should have been using it all along!.." ... Simultaneously, we get posts here and correspondence in our inbox critical of whatever we are able to find and acquire, regardless of the ball ... And we get emails from players who say "..Can you keep using the ball we used at the _______ tournament because it was nice to actually play softball again instead of home run derby? I can't say that in public because I don't feel like being attacked there.." ... Both of those player positions should be afforded equal respect and credibility despite the fact that neither extreme is influential in our interim procurement decisions ...

The fundamental problem remains the current inability of ball suppliers to overcome the global import crisis affecting almost the entire economy ... When that loosens, we intend to resume using the "SSUSA-branded" microcell technology ball you are accustomed to using ... What we may do at the World's (microcell vs. X-Rock) is still open to a decision, one that will be based on availability ...

July 5, 2021
Bobby Buggs
89 posts
Lets just stop bitching and be happy we are actually able to play this game. While we are ALL impacted by this supply issue I can assure you this will not happen again as long as Im in the softball business.
July 5, 2021
Fabe
Men's 60
444 posts
It is interesting to consider Defense being important again! Bless to play this game n to meet many new friends! Aloha, Fabe
July 6, 2021
bkb555
293 posts
Bobby, here is a real question for you...What is the difference between the Trump Stote USA ball and the Evil Trump Stote USA ball....both are 44/375 and the non-evil ball was the one that many guys were complaining about being a dud
July 6, 2021
neck10
710 posts
call Dicks Sporting Goods they have the tattoo Balls they are good ball's we had to go to them when we couldn't get the Trump ball. Its the same ball 375 Max Compression 44 core.We have the Trump on order from SSUSA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 6, 2021
J R
251 posts
The reason they have the Tattoo is most people do not like them..SPA uses them.They do not travel well in hot weather.
July 6, 2021
The Wizard
16 posts
I have been told by the SSUSA office today that we would be using the Tattoo ball by AD Star at the Western Nationals. Can you please tell us which model # that is as there are several different
"Flavors" of Tattoos. Thanks in advance for providing this information.
July 6, 2021
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3827 posts
Just for grins, hopefully not the one J R mentioned in the immediately previous post! ... We'll see!
July 6, 2021
The Wizard
16 posts
D2 Does your reply mean you don't know which Tattoo ball we're using, or you're keeping it to yourself ? I've been trying to get information so my team can make an informed decision on whether to attend the Western's or not. I've been polite, respectful and accepted the answer I was given last week to "wait until the 6th and we'll have an answer on the ball being used" It's a very simple question, What is the model # of the Tattoo ball being used at the Western Nationals.
Thank You.
July 6, 2021
Full Count
44 posts
I thought the ball used in Carson was fine. Not sure how it will play with elevation change and the heat.
I've seen the rock for sale on line 44/375
haven't heard a good reason why we can't use that ball.
If the quantity is too hard to get
bring your own ball 44/375 is also good idea.
Nothing wrong with keeping your customers happy.
July 6, 2021
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3827 posts
The Wiz ... I found out from you just this evening that it's apparently going to be a Tattoo ball ... Thanks for the news flash! ... I spent the entire day on two projects, drafting the inclement weather recovery plan for the Northeast Championships in Syracuse to handle today's rainouts and generating the DRAFT Master Plan for the Northwest Championships in Salem & Albany to allow those facilities to handle their own staffing demands ...

In response to your "very simple question": I haven't the slightest idea which flavor Tattoo it may be, so I'm not keeping that unknown to myself ... Nor am I currently motivated to make any further inquiry ... I am happy that we met deadline, as promised, for you to find out on the 6th it's the Tattoo ... If that's not good enough for now, maybe it would be a good thing for your team to take a pass this year ... While we value everyone's participation, it's certainly not required that you do so ...

July 6, 2021
jimperry19
61 posts
Hi Dave, not trying to pile on. Your last post references Albany for the Jim Sherman in addition to Salem. Albany is a long ways from Salem. When will teams know if they have to travel to Albany? Thank you for all you do for us. Jim Perry
July 6, 2021
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3827 posts
Jim ... I hope you knew I meant Albany, OR, and not Albany, NY, especially since Syracuse was mentioned in the same post! ... There are two Divisions that will be scheduled into the Timber Linn Complex in Albany ... They are the 10-team Men's 50/55-Gold division (nine 50-AAA + one 55-Major) and the 5-team Women's 40/50+ division (playing Saturday/Sunday only) ... The other 58 teams will be scheduled into Wallace Marine Park in Salem ... The parks are 26.8 miles (or 33± minutes) apart, principally via I-5 ...

July 7, 2021
lb16
Men's 55
177 posts
The tattoo ball SPA and ISSA use are great balls. Not sure if these are the ones SSUSA will be using or not. The dud SPA ball was when they switched to a different Baden ball.
July 7, 2021
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3827 posts
Thanks lb16 ... I hope (and believe) you're correct, but in reality it matters not one bit ... There is a certain contingent here that is going to complain regardless of the ball, and they are the same ones who never apologize when it turns out they were wrong ... I watched how difficult it was for us to even find adequate inventory for the Northeast, Southern, Midwest, Northwest and Eastern/Western National's, so we'll graciously use what we get ... This ain't a "buyer's market" environment ... The balls will be spherical, optic yellow and come from a reputable company in the marketplace ... We're actually going to go ahead and put the events on anyways, so we'll see who shows up to compete on the fields rather than on the keyboard ... Right now 149 say they're coming in the West and another 107 in the East ... One less team here and there is an insignificant detail once I start to write the schedules in the next couple/few days ... Good luck everyone! ...

July 7, 2021
jimperry19
61 posts
Dave, I just saw your response. Yes, I did figure it was Albany Oregon :) I was hoping we were at Wallace Marine, but so be it. I am relieved to see that we are sticking with a "spherical, optic yellow' ball.
July 7, 2021
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3827 posts
Jim ... You've got a "country club" schedule at Timber Linn ... No late nights and an early end on Sunday ... Plus there's the upside for some of the players that Timber Linn sells beer and wine, whereas Wallace Marine doesn't sell it OR allow it brought in ... So there's that! ... Good luck ...
July 8, 2021
Jawood
Men's 50
937 posts
I thought Wallace-Marine has always sold alcohol?
July 8, 2021
FIZGIG
Men's 40
2 posts
The balls SSUSAWA have been using are breaking more bats than I have ever seen.
July 8, 2021
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3827 posts
When Bobby opened this thread and called it Don't blame SSUSA for the ball problem., who would have thought it would evolve some 43± posts later into also blaming SSUSA for a rash of broken bats in the Great Northwest? ... Nope, not me either ... This is probably about as good a time as there is for sanity sake to shut this down ... It's been fun! ...
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