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Discussion: Is batter out

Posted Discussion
May 26, 2021
1jonsey
48 posts
Is batter out

I'm confused on the end of your definition of a catch 1.10,
I've only been umpiring senior softball a few months and I had a play today where I called the batter out, the manager of the batting team said that the fielder made an illegal catch because he didn't actually catch the ball with his glove or his bare hand and that the runner should be placed on 1st base.
Now after reading the rule over I'm not sure. I umpired ASA for many years and I re-read their rule and it gives an explanation of a trapped fly ball by the body that hasn't touched the ground and it goes further to explain that it is not a catch until the fielder shows control by grasping the ball with his bare hand or his glove. I can't find any other info. on this in your rule book. Does senior softball consider this a catch and can you show me the reference to it so I can go back and show the Mgr.

here is the play
Batter hits a short fly ball to the outfield the fielder comes running in slides and catches the ball with his stomach and arms together and smothers the ball with his glove he then sticks his hand underneath the glove to show control of the ball per SS rule is it an illegal catch ?


1.10 • CATCH A catch is a legally caught ball that occurs when the fielder catches a batted or thrown ball with his hand(s) or glove and the resulting release of the ball must be voluntary. NOTE: It is not a catch if a fielder, after he contacts the ball, collides with another player, umpire or a fence, or falls to the ground and loses possession of the ball as a result of the collision or falling to the ground. A ball that strikes anything other than a defensive player while it is in flight, is ruled the same as if it struck the ground. An illegally caught ball occurs when a fielder catches a batted or thrown ball with anything other than his hand(s) or glove in its proper place.
May 26, 2021
Full Count
39 posts
I'm no umpire but I have an out. Fielder shows control with hand bringing up the ball from under the glove. Ball does not hit the ground or fence.
May 27, 2021
Turning2
Men's 70
105 posts
1jonsey - you are good in your answer, batter is out, SSUSA definitions 1.10 & 1.34 apply, fielder may have played the ball off his chest or abdomen, had control of the ball with either his glove or bare hand before the ball could fall to the ground
May 27, 2021
B.J.
904 posts
T2... I agree that the batter should be out... "BUT" I don't agree that either definition that I posted below tells anywhere that control of the ball in the hand or glove is needed???

I had to go and look thru my old SSUSA rule books and went back to 2010 and found a FULL and well worded definition of a catch ... it states if the ball is merely in the fielders arms or some part of his body equipment or clothing, that the catch is NOT COMPLETED until the ball is in the grasp of the fielders hand or glove... for some reason SSUSA re-worded the rule in the 2011-12 rule book and all futute books by taking out the most IMPORTANT part of the definition and by doing so left a definite gray area... because technically per the wording of the scenario the fielder DID NOT CATCH the ball with hand or glove he corraled it with his body and stopped the flight and motion of the ball.. another good example is a 1st baseman who takes a short hop throw and the ball ends up in his arm pit... how did he technically catch the throw??? not with his hand or glove.. yes I would have a catch and an out if he grasped the ball with his hand before the runner got to the base



1.10 • CATCH
A catch is a legally caught ball that occurs when the fielder catches a batted or thrown ball with his hand(s) or glove and the resulting release of the ball must be voluntary.
NOTE: It is not a catch if a fielder, after he contacts the ball, collides with another player, umpire or a fence, or falls to the ground and loses possession of the ball as a result of the collision or falling to the ground. A ball that strikes anything other than a defensive player while it is in flight, is ruled the same as if it struck the ground. An illegally caught ball occurs when a fielder catches a batted or thrown ball with anything other than his hand(s) or glove in its proper place

1.34 • ILLEGAL CATCH
An illegally caught ball occurs when a fielder catches a batted or thrown ball with anything other than his hand(s) or legal glove in its proper place or an
illegal player makes a catch.

May 27, 2021
Turning2
Men's 70
105 posts
BJ - first sentence in both definitions : 1.10 catches a batted or thrown ball with his hand(s) or gloves is a legally caught ball. 1.34 ball caught with anything other than his hand(s) or legal glove is an illegally caught ball

Can’t be more clear, at least to me. Agree?
May 27, 2021
B.J.
904 posts
T2.. 1j's scenario said the fielder slid and caught the ball with his stomach and arms together and then smothered the ball with his glove he then stuck his hand underneath the glove to show control of the ball.. so he didn't stop the flight of the ball with his hand or glove he used his body then grasped the ball with his hand
May 27, 2021
DaveDowell
Men's 65
3518 posts
B.J. ... Does the phrase "Twin Sons of Different Mothers" strike a Wayne-ish familiarity? ... Ha!
May 27, 2021
B.J.
904 posts
lol.. yes, but only if there name is Darryl
May 27, 2021
Turning2
Men's 70
105 posts
BJ. The ball never touched the ground. Ball can bounce off one fielder to the next and roll up one arm and down the other and fielder fall down and ball land on his stomach, perfectly balanced and once the fielder grasps in his hand, there is an out.

DD - do you agree? If not, just show the reasoning why there wouldn’t be an out. Thanks
May 28, 2021
B.J.
904 posts
T2.. yes you are 100% correct in your last post the batter should be out ..

what I'm disagreeing with is the wording in the definitions of a catch of the original scenario written by Darryls brother 1j .. the removal in 2011/12 of part of the definition where it states if the ball is merely in the fielders arms or some part of his body equipment or clothing, that the catch is NOT COMPLETED until the ball is in the grasp of the fielders hand or glove .. this last sentence of the rule was IMO the most important part of the definition of a catch




May 28, 2021
DCPete
397 posts
Ughh; so a Runner in this scenario would still be able to Tag Up & advance to the next base the moment the ball was 1st "smothered" . . .
May 28, 2021
Turning2
Men's 70
105 posts
DCPete - upon first "touching", always
June 1, 2021
txnighttrain
105 posts
The whole purpose of this rule is two fold. One to define control for a catch (yes, the ground can cause a fumble) and what is legal possession that constitutes a catch. A person can't use the inner part of his ball cap to catch the ball and then reach in with his hand to say he legally possessed and controlled the ball. The same would be to pull out his jersey to form a "cup" to catch the ball. The ball in contact alone against the body would not be illegal, but it would not be a catch until the player had the ball in his hand or glove.
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