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Discussion: Safe r out

Posted Discussion
Nov. 21, 2020
nails
Men's 70
52 posts
Safe r out
As I swing and hit the ball, I hear behind me foot is out of the box. Thinking the ump called it I stopped running knowing that’s an out. But the catcher called it not the ump. Is that legal.?
Nov. 21, 2020
B.J.
740 posts
no it's verbal obstruction.. batter is awarded 1st base or whatever base the umpire judges you would have attained had there not been OBS
Nov. 22, 2020
stick8
1803 posts
In young man’s ball the batter gets the option of taking the result of the play or a redo.
And the catcher receives a very stern warning!
Nov. 22, 2020
B.J.
740 posts
stick.. I think what you are refering to is when the catcher hinders or prevents the batter from hitting a pitched ball.. that is different than verbal OBS after the ball is hit...

also in SSUSA there is no option for a do-over.. the batter gets the result of the hit or if he or any other runner don't advance at least 1 base then they are awarded the 1 base IF they were forced to advance
Nov. 22, 2020
nails
Men's 70
52 posts
This was in Phoenix last week. Actually I stopped running after hearing catcher and was thrown out at first base. Manager appealed to ump with no success
Nov. 23, 2020
B.J.
740 posts
nails..this is similar to a catcher yelling foul ball and then having the ball fall in fair territory.. all runners had stopped advancing.. it would be the judgement of the umpire as to where the runners would have advanced..

I recently had a catcher yell infield fly on a bases loaded pop up between 3rd and home and in my judgement no fielder had a chance to make the catch.. the runners all stopped after time was called I awarded the batter 1b and all runners advanced 1 base
Nov. 23, 2020
stick8
1803 posts
BJ you’re correct as usual but when you say the catcher hindering or preventing the batter from hitting a pitch I take that to mean the batter not swinging.
I’m referring to someone hitting the pitch.
Nov. 23, 2020
B.J.
740 posts
stick..no I mean when the batter does swing and his bat catches part of the catchers glove that is CATCHER OBS
Nov. 23, 2020
stick8
1803 posts
Yep that’s obstruction. I have yet to witness that in a slo pitch game. Have you?
Nov. 25, 2020
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
1339 posts
An umpire should yell "dead ball", not that this would help a batter distinguish. I agree with B.J., as usual.
Nov. 26, 2020
Wayne 37
Men's 65
726 posts
There is nothing in the SSUSA rulebook that supports verbal obstruction.

Umpires should never yell dead ball as obstruction is a delayed dead ball. Umpire should point to where the obstruction occurred and give the obstruction signal

At the end of playing action, umpire shall declare time with both hands raised above their heads, and place runner(s) appropriately. (Not sure if some umpires know how to do that.)

Additionally, all dead balls should be taken out beyond the outfield fence, and be given a proper burial.
Nov. 27, 2020
DaveDowell
Men's 65
3084 posts
Wayne ... There's more than one way to skin that cat ... This goes back at least a decade to Portland and the Jim Sherman Memorial Northwest event, but I was the Director and had an umpire make the exact same call for verbal "obstruction/deception" and award the batter first base ... Defense objected, but we sold it under the unsportsmanlike intent conduct rule in the book [emphasis added] ... There was a compromise that I suggested, and the umpire agreed, not to eject the catcher ... That probably wasn't exactly what the rule is all about, but it fairly solved a potential injustice ...
__________

§6.8(2) • DISTRACTING THE BATTER
A fielder shall not take a position in the batter's line of vision or, with deliberate unsportsmanlike intent, act in a manner to distract the batter. A pitch does not have to be released. NOTE: The offending player shall also be ejected from the game.

Nov. 27, 2020
Wayne 37
Men's 65
726 posts
I understand all that. I am just wondering if there was intent on the catcher's part in the OP to distract the batter/runner. He could have been alerting the umpire that the batter made illegal contact by having a foot completely on the ground out of the box.

I looked in all the obvious places where "verbal" obstruction might be addressed. Personally, I wouldn't allow such shenanigans go on in my games even judging no intent on the catcher's part without a "verbal" warning and ejection for the next offense.

I believe it is 1.64 that addresses using Time as the proper verbiage for stopping playing action.

Enjoy your Thanksgiving.
Nov. 27, 2020
DaveDowell
Men's 65
3084 posts
Agreed Wayne ... Not being there, I don't know ... I think it's more likely, but in no manner certain either way, that the catcher may have been "asking for the call" based on his opinion of where he thinks the batter's foot may have been as opposed to an intention to deceive ... There's just know way for the catcher to know whether the batter is going to freeze (he did) or keep running (he didn't) ...
Nov. 27, 2020
B.J.
740 posts
HE"S BACK.. and as usual he's wrong

wayne ... once the ball is put into play by the batter the PROPER VERBIAGE to stop playing action is DEAD BALL not time out.. an umpire should NEVER call time if the ball is in play.. until all runners have stopped advancing and the defense has control of the ball in the infield.. UNLESS there has been a severe injury on the field of play

Nov. 27, 2020
Wayne 37
Men's 65
726 posts
I see someone has woken up from their turkey coma.

Please reference SSUSA rule 1.64 on page 11 as I stated earlier. I don't know which is worse, time out (not playing football) or dead ball (NOTE: see earlier post). Per the usual, you're merely picking nits by twisting my words.

Nov. 27, 2020
nails
Men's 70
52 posts
I suppose my foot was close and catcher was trying to get the call. But umpire did not plan to make that call. I honesty stopped running thinking ump made that call. I want to say umps did a great job at the tournament and this call did not affect outcome of game. I was just curious what the ruling should of been. Thanks
Nov. 27, 2020
Donna McGuire
8 posts
Actually, the rule book does cover whether or not this situation is a dead ball. But before citing that rule, I want to stress that obstruction CAN be verbal.The key to an umpire calling obstruction is whether a fielder impedes the progress of the runner. The rule book does not say how “impede” must happen. It most certainly can happen verbally. Meanwhile, not all obstruction in SSUSA play is a delayed dead ball. See Rule 8.4(10), which says: “If play is being made on the obstructed runner or if the batter-runner is obstructed before reaching 1st base, the ball is dead, and all runners advance without liability to be put out to the bases they would have reached.”
Nov. 28, 2020
Michael Plunkett
Men's 65
19 posts
What a great discussion. Thank all of you.
Nov. 28, 2020
DirkPitt
8 posts
Not sure why a runner would ever stop running without hearing "DEAD BALL" or "TIME." I know I would not and I don't know many guys I play with that would stop based on some random sound/phrase they heard. What if a fan made some noise that a baserunner misconstrued - is that impeding the batter-runner too?

Defensive players (and fans) call out all kinds of things during a play. Runner missed a bag, out of the box, stay/go, etc. The offense should play on until you hear TIME or DEAD BALL. Even on close foul balls most higher level players will continue on until they get some confirmation the call was made by an umpire and not some random individual.

When in doubt, run it out!

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