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Online now: 3 members: Bobby B, Ron Pulli, TABLE SETTER 11; 118 anonymousDiscussion: Base runner using the safety bag at 1st base
| Posted | Discussion |
| Nov. 10, 2019 jgoff5113 Men's 60 66 posts | Base runner using the safety bag at 1st base Situation: Runner on 1st. Next batter is a lefty and often hits hard grounders and line drives down the 1st base line. Can the runner choose to stand on the orange safety bag at first, even keeping his whole body in foul territory, or does he have to be in contact with the white bag that sits in fair territory? If using the orange safety bag in this way is against the rules, should the runner be called out if the umpire notices he's using the orange bag instead of the white one, or should he be given a warning? For what it's worth, note that a runner on 3rd can put his whole body, except for a toe on the bag, in foul territory if he chooses to, as in the case of a righty at bat who is known to hit screamers down the 3rd base line. In both cases, the runner doesn't want to get hit with the batted ball, and he also wants to give his teammate at bat all of fair territory to work with; if the base runner does get hit with the batted ball, he'd rather be in foul territory when that happens. |
| Nov. 10, 2019 B.J. 1105 posts | jgoff.. once the runner attains 1st base then both bags merge as one.. so yes a runner can stand in foul territory just toeing the safety bag.. read the last sentence of the rule below 8.4(1) • BATTER-RUNNER REACHING FIRST BASE Each batter must reach first base without the aid of a courtesy runner. A double bag shall be used at first base, the double portion of the bag being in foul territory abutting first base. If there is a play on a batter-runner going to first base, the batter-runner must touch some portion of the double bag extending into foul territory. He will be called out if he fails to do so, except if, in the umpire's judgment, the batter-runner is avoiding a collision. The batter-runner simultaneously touching both portions of the double bag is permitted. This is NOT an appeal play. Important: The defending player has only the white base,in fair territory, to make the putout; his touch of only the bag in foul territory will not result in an out. Once the batter-runner reaches first base, the double base shall be treated as one base and the fielder or runner may use either portion. |
| Nov. 11, 2019 jgoff5113 Men's 60 66 posts | Awesome B.J.! Thanks for pointing me to the right place in the rulebook. |
| Nov. 13, 2019 k man Men's 65 326 posts | Just got back from Ft Myers where the umpire in his pregame meeting said how the fielder had to touch the white base and the runner the orange bag. I asked him what happens if the runner hits both orange and white simultaneously. He stated he would call him out. I told him he was not correct in that the runner only has to touch part of the orange bag. He said No, I said yes and we went back and forth I finally said that's not the way it is written in the rule book. Not looking to antagonize him anymore we agreed to disagree. After the game I approached the TD and he kind of said its a judgment call- I guess meaning that the umpire could put his spin on it. Again I said not the case but we agreed to disagree. If I am not mistaken this has come up previously on this board. Batter can hit both bags but MUST touch some portion of the orange. PS I'm glad this situation never happened occurred during the game. and apparently the umpire did check with the TD regarding this situation but based on what we discussed don't know if his is aware of the correct ruling. |
| Nov. 13, 2019 DaveDowell Men's 70 4313 posts | k man • That was a potential blown call just waiting to happen. There is NO PROHIBITION AGAINST THE BATTER-RUNNER TOUCHING THE WHITE BAG SO LONG AS HE FULFILS HIS OBLIGATION TO TOUCH SOME PORTION OF THE ORANGE BAG SIMULTANEOUSLY. This is a non-issue for any umpire paying attention to the language of the rule. It can, and apparently almost did, become an issue for this one. If the umpire reads this Board: READ THE RULE, FOLLOW THE RULE is an excellent approach here. |
| Nov. 14, 2019 B.J. 1105 posts | Kman.. as Dave stated since the addition of the sentence I posted below to the rule several years ago it should have cleared up any confusion as to the runner being allowed to hit both bags at once... (the batter-runner simultaneously touching both portions of the double bag is permitted.) also in the future it might be a good idea to ask for the on sight UIC to clear up the confusion before the game is started .. he should know the rule |
| Nov. 14, 2019 k man Men's 65 326 posts | BJ, the tension at home plate when I disagreed with the ump, could have been cut with a knife. Surely didn't think to get the TD involved would help to deescalate things so I opted against it. Thankfully the situation never happened . |
| Nov. 14, 2019 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | k man, I hope that I am always approachable when I officiate. I used to work all associations and go to their local annual rules meetings. So I had a really good handle on rule differences, but I do not anymore, only for the associations that I work regularly. A couple of years ago one of the associations implemented a courtesy runner rule. The courtesy runner got stuck on third when he was supposed to bat, and the original runner went back to third. He was pretty passionate that they could do that. So I went and asked. He was right. So now I know if I ever do another one of their tournaments. It is better to be right in a situation like that. Unfortunately the safety bag seemed like such a good concept, but every association has played around with the rules on it. I am going to guess that your umpire worked in one where the rule that he was telling you was true for his association but not SSUSA. |
| Nov. 15, 2019 k man Men's 65 326 posts | Nancy, you are probably correct about that and I appreciate your honesty! |
| Nov. 15, 2019 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | k man, thank you. It does happen. Unfortunately some officials just don't know any rules but the ones that they are used to. I try to educate umpires that are not familiar with an association, but sometimes their attitude can get in the way. I stress being approachable when officiating. We might all learn something that way. I have lots of stories over the years, but I won't go on that tangent...now. |
