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Online now: 1 member: TABLE SETTER 11; 84 anonymousDiscussion: PLEASE CHANGE THIS RULE!!
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| March 25, 2019 Bruster55 Men's 60 109 posts | PLEASE CHANGE THIS RULE!! Over the weekend in the 55 Major division @ the Spring Worlds in Bull Head City,AZ one of our players at his first at bat came up and started smoothing out the *BACK of the box near the line that was pretty much already missing.The umpire made a judgement call and called the batter out which also comes with being ejected from the game.We were batting all 12 of our guys so every time he was up it was an out.So you can pretty much guess what happened in the bottom of the 7th with 2 outs down 1 run.The opposing team walked the bases loaded to get to his slot and game over. I know we should have gotten a hit or two to not make his out be the deciding game end-er but it is really ridiculous to be ejected for an umpires judgement call.**He did not erase the front line of the box!! Please change this rule!!call the batter out for that at bat if needed but do not eject him from the game. Being ejected from the game is to excessive! PLEASE HELP!! AZ Old School 55 M |
| March 25, 2019 k man Men's 65 326 posts | I could be wrong but I thought the rule when a guy is out of the lineup was that it was an out the next time in the batting order and then the lineup gets compressed. Or is that only when a player leaves due to injury. And yes an out and ejection does seem excessive but those the know might explain why the rule is as such. |
| March 25, 2019 TimMcElroy 942 posts | k man- If a player leaves the game due to injury with no available subs an out occurs for the next at bat only (compress the lineup from that point forward). When a player is ejected an out is recorded for the rest of the game if there are no available subs. |
| March 25, 2019 TimMcElroy 942 posts | Bruster55- In your view, obliterating the front of the box may be a more series offense than obliterating some other portion. I will give you an alternate view. Erasing the back of the box could be a benefit to batters who start as far back as possible to a) protect the back of the mat or b) run through the box. This rule change is new for 2019 so there will likely be some unhappy folks until they get used to it. I think it is important that umps call it the same way for everyone. The dimensions are 3' x 7' and should be the same for everyone. |
| March 25, 2019 JackZ_SLC Men's 55 15 posts | Maybe if the boxes were all set the same in relation to the mat it would be easier. I noticed most of the boxes in Bullhead were set so the back of the mat was about 6" in front of the back line. Very hard to hit a ball that lands at the back of the mat when it is at your back shoulder coming down at the back of the mat. There was a lot of room at the front of the box in front of the plate. Thought that was what they were trying to stop with batters moving forward towards the pitcher. But maybe not. I agree that a one time out at that moment would be fine, an ejection seems harsh. Especially on a first year rule. I saw the end of the game in question, did not see the ejection. Would rather see the game decided on the field, not by a very subjective call. |
| March 25, 2019 Bruster55 Men's 60 109 posts | Yes, if all the umpires did enforce the rule it might be more accepted.I will throw in the umpire that did make this call wasn't very pleasant in either game we had him in. The other umpires we had were very professional and really seemed to love being out there. Overall great tourney . Thx Jeff |
| March 26, 2019 coop3636 514 posts | Please add this to the rule... You can NOT walk a batter to get to the "out " in the line up If this happens, the "out" will be skipped and it goes to the next batter. This is the way it is handled in the other associations Just my 2 cents Coop3636 PS.. I agree an ejection is too severe. |
| March 26, 2019 Benji4 Men's 55 289 posts | If the umpire was worth a crap he wouldn't need any lines to effectively do his job especially when the back line doesn't even matter. Instead of changing the rule just get rid of the umpire. Ejecting a player for that is just plain Chicken Shit................... Give a warning and move on................. |
| March 26, 2019 Wayne 37 Men's 65 773 posts | coop3636, I've never played where the player was ejected, injured or only nine batters wasn't an out when their spot came out in the lineup and that was with younger gents about ten years ago. We were playing 250" fences, I was a HR King in those tournaments. However, if you hit the ball over the 300" fence, you were ejected and unless you had a sub when that spot came up it was an out. Needless to say, we had a few holes most of the time. You could curse basically unless you used the "F" word. It didn't matter even if your were saying it to yourself but the umpire heard it. The real thing this rule does is keep the batters in the box like they're supposed to and not fudge the lines by rubbing them out. There have been times where it looked like the batter was waiting to step into the batter's box, but was standing there waiting for a pitch to arrive. It seems those breaking the rule are the one's who complain anyway :) |
| March 26, 2019 Wayne 37 Men's 65 773 posts | Benji4, They used to give a warning I believe. I think deliberately cheating is Chicken Shiite myself. The box is 7'x3' for everybody. PS ~ The ejection if specified in the rulebook. |
| March 26, 2019 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | Here's a "re-post" of my comment taken from a thread that originated on 10/31/2018 on this topic ... It illustrates an extreme example, but it was the principal motivation to tighten up the rule in the interest of keeping batters IN THE BOX ... Obviously, I didn't see the incident in the Spring Worlds, but hopefully it sheds some light on the action of the National Rules Committee last fall ... My personal expectation would be having umpires that understand the proper application of the word "deliberately" and how that impact any call they might make ... __________ ".. I appreciate your distinction between the casual "it happens" when a batter digs in and a deliberate wipe-out of the line(s) ... Hopefully, most umpires can see that, too, which is why the word "deliberately" is in the rule ... Here's a classic example of "deliberately" from the 2017 Eastern National's in Cary, NC ... Umpire asks me to come to the pre-game plate conference because one of the managers (Major+ division) had actually interrupted the umpire so he could eradicate BOTH front lines of the boxes, then graciously told the ump it was OK to resume the conference ... Hadn't seen that one before, so I told the ump to start the game clock timer while I rounded up the field prep guys and they re-chalked the lines ... I (erroneously) thought that would end it ... The first time that manager came to bat, he did the same thing, again with both lines ... So I did the same thing, too, having the lines re-chalked while the clock ran, and instructing the ump to call the batter out, which he did ... Of course, as soon as the game ended, the manager was at the Director table creating a huge scene and blaming us for them only getting five innings of play ... Go figger.." |
| March 26, 2019 Jon44 Men's 55 149 posts | This ruling definitely made it's way around Bullhead City portion of the tournament and talked about a lot.... it was discussed by our team and I overheard many others discussing it. According to our manager, it was discussed at length at the managers meeting and the consequences were spelled out. With that said, we had an ump come to our dugout after we hit one inning to give us a warning on this very same thing BEFORE doing something that could have really hurt us. One of our guys apparently did a similar brushing/smoothing motion with his feet and the opposing catcher tried to get him ejected like what happened to the Old School guy. We were warned and never came close to trying to smooth out box again that game. I didn't see the old school thing happen, so I have no idea how deliberate that was. I guess only the player knows, but it turned out to be very punitive late in the game for them and dropped them into the losers bracket, making it harder to win the tournament. |
| March 26, 2019 coop3636 514 posts | For Wayne Quote from SPA rule book "If a team has less than the minimum number required to finish the game, it must forfeit the game. With two outs, the defensive team cannot intentionally or unintentionally walk the batter prior to a vacant spot in the batting order to get the automatic out. Should the defense walk the batter preceding a vacant spot in the batting order, the automatic out is skipped and the batter whose name succeeds the vacant spot now becomes the batter of record." |
| March 26, 2019 lowprofile 65 posts | I agree with JackZ, The back of the box is almost even with the back of the mat. Kind of a weird configuration? seems like there should be more in the back of the box not the front As per Dave's previous comments in an earlier thread...*were trying to save the pitcher*! I would like to try to hit the deep pitch without having to tomahawk the pitch! I vote to eliminate the back line! issue solved, one less line for the umpire to have throw somebody out for wiping the line out! ok lol I know that won't happen but it was worth a try. Still would like the back line further back though. |
| March 26, 2019 cycleman Men's 75 28 posts | There is a diagram of the batter's box and it's position relative to home plate and the strike mat on page 84 of the "Rules"book! If we are wanting/trying to protect pitchers....an easy fix would be to move the batter's box back 6-9 inches, so that the "strike zone" would be more centered in relation to the batter's box. |
| March 26, 2019 Bruster55 Men's 60 109 posts | All good feedback.It FOR SURE was not deliberate in any way.Hopefully it can be brought up for next years rules & make a change getting rid of the ejection part of it. Thanks Guys! |
| March 26, 2019 mck71 Men's 60 344 posts | Bruster - Send your comments regarding the rule in an email to info@seniorsoftball.com, they will take your comments about rule changes either in person, by regular mail or by email. |
| March 27, 2019 Bigboy97xp 15 posts | I was an umpire in Kingman for this tournament and made this rule part of my pre-game with the coaches never had a problem just saying |
