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Discussion: foul tip question

Posted Discussion
Feb. 20
Larry S

57 posts
In our senior league we have modified the foul tip rule to read that any foul tip that goes directly to the catchers glove is an out. We have an umpire saying there was a rule one time stating that if a foul tip was not cleanly caught, it was not an out.
ie: if the ball popped out of the catcher's glove, but he caught it before it hit the ground, it would not be an out. Did such a rule ever exist?
Feb. 20
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4359 posts
Larry S ... Here are the relevant sections from the 2019-20 Official Rulebook definitions for both a foul ball and a foul tip during SSUSA sanctioned play ... These may differ in other associations or by local league rule modification ... Changes made at the 2018 Rules Committee sessions in late November are reflected in italic font type ...
__________

§1.28FOUL BALL
A foul ball is a legally batted ball that:

F. Goes directly from the bat, not higher than the batter's head to any part of the catcher's body or equipment other than the hand(s) or glove.
__________

§1.29FOUL TIP
A foul tip is batted ball that goes directly from the bat, not higher than the batter's head, to the catcher's hand(s) or glove and is legally caught by the catcher. EFFECT: The ball is dead on all foul tips and the batter is out if it is the final strike.

Feb. 20
Garocket
Men's 55
259 posts
The foul tip rule for years was in softball a foul tip had to go above the batters head to be called a foul ball. Then a few years back ASA changed the rule because the definition of a foul tip was any ball that is tip and goes from the bat directly to the catchers glove is a foul tip. If the catcher had to move his glove to catch the ball, then it was a caught foul ball and was declared an out. Most associations have now adopted the ASA rule. However I know that SSUSA and ISA still says it has to go above the batters head. So just know what rule your league is using, as not to look like a jackazz arguing if you are not sure which rule is being applied.
Feb. 20
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4359 posts
▲ ▲ ▲ Nailed it on how different rules and interpretations in multiple associations and local leagues creates confusion ... Thanks, Garocket ...
Feb. 20
firemanfred

10 posts
Look at ASA rules supplement,it was changed years ago, does not have to go over the head..
Feb. 23
txnighttrain

119 posts
However, if you read new rule, it says a foul tip may now count as the waste foul, so as long as it never goes above the batters head, he is now not out on strike 3. We start 1-1. Counts goes to 1-2. Under old rule if you had a foul tip at this point (remember must be caught by definition or it is a foul ball), it was strike 3 and batter was out. Now it is a waste foul and batter gets another shot. The only reason for foul tip rule now is so batter won't be called out as a foul ball catch.
Feb. 24
firemanfred

10 posts
So your saying if a batter has a strike, then a foul tip caught clean by the catcher for strike two, is not an out with a 3-2count..
Feb. 24
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4359 posts
Simply stated • A "foul tip" is considered a "waste foul" in games involving the "1-1" starting pitch count if the batter has a "waste foul" remaining ... For divisions that play the "0-0" starting pitch count, a foul tip with two strikes in the count is strike three and the batter is out ... Hope this helps clarify things ...
Feb. 24
firemanfred

10 posts
Games with a 1-1 start basically is a 3-2 count correct? I understand the courtesy or must be rule, so your saying I get a called strike 1, I swing at next pitch foul tip caught clean by catcher, I get another swing?
Feb. 25
firemanfred

10 posts
Guess I better get a new rule book.... :)
Feb. 25
B.J.

1113 posts
firemanfred.. yes .. below is the rule

1.29 • FOUL TIP
A foul tip is batted ball that goes directly from the bat, not higher than the batter's head, to the catcher's hand(s) or glove and is legally caught by the catcher. EFFECT: The ball is dead on all foul tips and the batter is out if it is the final strike.
Feb. 25
firemanfred

10 posts
Got it, forgot some of our tornament start with 0-0 count,, my bad,, lol
March 2
Wayne 37
Men's 65
773 posts
I say just do away with 1.29. It is already defined in 1.28 as merely a foul ball.

Foul tip should be in verbiage that a ball is live when legally caught.
March 2
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4359 posts
And I say maybe you should consider attending the National Rules Committee sessions some year ... Definitions §1.28 and §1.29 are subtly different and both were concisely fine-tuned following full discussion on how these two items interplay with the changes being made over time in for various age groups in the "1-1" starting pitch count ... The second and eighth posts in this thread should be crystal clear for anyone, even you ... ** THREAD CLOSED **
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