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Online now: 1 member: TABLE SETTER 11; 83 anonymousDiscussion: Purpose of the rule
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| Dec. 20, 2018 Wayne 37 Men's 65 773 posts | Purpose of the rule I don't understand the purpose of this rule nor why it exists in the first place. The only situation in that it makes any sense is if the batter goes into the dugout after a walk and fails to touch his award base. Don't know why it applies to a fair batted ball or batted ball with catcher's obstruction. §8.3 • BATTER-RUNNER IS OUT C. When he fails to advance to first base and enters his team area after a batted fair ball, a base on balls, or catcher obstruction. EFFECT: The ball is dead, the batter-runner is out and runners return to the base occupied at the time of the pitch unless put out prior to the violation cannot advance. |
| Dec. 21, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | Wayne ... Let's start with an accurate statement of the rule amendment itself ... When you just cut/paste from a redline/ __________ §8.3 • BATTER-RUNNER IS OUT C. When he fails to advance to first base and enters his team area after a batted fair ball, a base on balls, or catcher obstruction. EFFECT: The ball is dead, the batter-runner is out and runners return to the base occupied at the time of the pitch unless put out prior to the violation __________ The amendment was made to clarify what happens when a batter-runner abandons the effort to legally acquire first base in circumstances other than a "hit and sit" fact pattern ... Under the previous wording that included "cannot advance", this scenario was possible: Runner on first base, one out, and batter hits routine double-play ball to shortstop ... SS goes to second for the front end of the double play while batter-runner heads straight to the dugout ... Under the former rule language, the runner retired at second would be returned to first base, depriving the defense of a fairly earned second out of the inning ... That is not a desired result, so we fixed it ... |
| Dec. 21, 2018 Wayne 37 Men's 65 773 posts | I copied the new rule amendment. I guess some of it didn't paste. I grasp more than you think I do. [wink, wink] I broached the question a while back on where the runners are placed and at what time do you make the ball dead. I stated back when that outs are called in the order that they are made in. It appears someone listened and made the amendment as to TOP. Also, my contention was once the ball was made dead that runners return to the last base they had attained.....legally or illegally [missed base] In rulespeak, there is no provision stating "routine double play". You're not taking into account what all has to actually happen to complete a double play. Less than two outs, runners on 1B and five on 3B and a routine groundball to SS. SS airmails the throw to 2B into foul territory down the rightfield line. Batter runner seeing that runner on 3B scores goes into the dugout to get his glove since the force is off at 2B because of the errant throw and the runner has attained 2B. In essence, this rule bails the defense out of their responsiblity to make the play(s) when all runners are returned to their TOP base. Consider bases loaded and the batter drives one deep into the gap with less than 2 outs and all 3 runners scored. However, the batter tears an Achilles or MCL running to 1B. He then hobbles in agony into the dugout because of the pain level without touching 1B. Why the rule doesn't present itself as feasible to me. |
| Dec. 21, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | Wayne ... Thanks for the input, both previous and current ... The rule is better than it was and does provide an increased level of clarity ... The hypothetical cited in correspondence we received and mentioned above is admittedly going to be a rare occurrence, but now it's covered ... Your "new" hypothetical is what makes this time of the year both interesting and at times amusing ... There is SO much time spent trying to craft the perfect "but what if" scenario, despite many/most of them having a less than 0.5% probability of happening ... There are sufficient other rule provisions that allow competent umpires and tournament directors to handle those situations fairly and properly ... We're more comfortable letting things play out that way than ending up with a 2,500 page rule book ... |
| Dec. 24, 2018 curty Men's 60 187 posts | At Worlds @ Vegas a few years ago the following occurred: bases loaded, no outs, run#4 on 3rd base, run#5 on second. ground ball to pitcher, throw's to second ( to start dp), second base man, see's batter NOT running, throws to 3rd to get that runner, umpire calls batter out for walking towards dugout = triple play - no runs scored! I was second baseman! |
| Dec. 24, 2018 stick8 1991 posts | Curry that is a heads up play on your part!! With no outs I’d be kind of curious why your pitcher didn’t throw home first after fielding the grounder? |
| Dec. 26, 2018 curty Men's 60 187 posts | stick- we had already discussed going 2nd to 1st to home- confident in the "normal DP" & then some. Runner on third was a little slow, as we had already seen when he didn't score on previous hit. I had the option of going to the plate after the out @ 2, but saw it all in front of me. Honestly, my thought was 3rd, then plate, but ump beat us to it. Guy on 3rd never left the base! |
| Dec. 26, 2018 Wayne 37 Men's 65 773 posts | Two questions. Did F5 tag the runner going to 3B as stepping on 2B removed the force......and did the batter actually enter the dugout or was he just walking to it? Batter-run could have corrected themselves. |
| Dec. 27, 2018 curty Men's 60 187 posts | Wayne- 3rd baseman tagged runner about 15' in front of base with intent to throw to first, but batter was nearly @ dugout- they were on 3rd base side. We were screaming to throw to first, but Ump made the call. |
