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| Posted | Discussion |
| Nov. 9, 2018 grayhitter59 Men's 60 345 posts | out of play Ball is hit to the outfield, runner on first heads to 3rd base, ball is thrown towards 3rd, hits runner on the head (ouch!) and goes over the fence, out of play. What is the call? |
| Nov. 9, 2018 Spock Men's 60 14 posts | Ball is out of play, Advance 1 base. |
| Nov. 9, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4317 posts | Manny ... Unless, of course, your stated fact pattern had him going straight to third base across the infield ... Then he would be out for missing second base ... [grins] |
| Nov. 9, 2018 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | ...only on the appeal. |
| Nov. 9, 2018 1bounce Men's 55 35 posts | 1plus 1 from the time the ball left the throwers hand. If he had not touched 2nd yet he gets 3rd. If he already passed 2nd he gets home |
| Nov. 9, 2018 B.J. 1107 posts | below is the rule for the above scenario 8.4(10) • WHEN RUNNERS ARE ENTITLED TO ADVANCE Runners are entitled to advance without liability to be put out: D. When the ball is in play and is overthrown (beyond the boundary lines) or is blocked. EFFECT: All runners will be awarded two bases, and the award will be governed by the positions of the runners when the ball left the fielder's hands. If two runners are between the same bases, the award is based on the lead runner. |
| Nov. 9, 2018 grayhitter59 Men's 60 345 posts | No Dave he did not go across the diamond, LMAO. (little league) What I don't understand the throw was on line, the runner was in the base line, it just so happened it hit him on the head and went up in the air over the fence. One of those things that can happen. My point is why is the defense penalized for the ball hitting an offensive player. Everyone did there job correctly, good throw good base running. Ball ends up over the fence never hit the ground. I would think dead ball no advancement! |
| Nov. 9, 2018 Wayne 37 Men's 65 773 posts | grayhitter59, the easy way to remember is that all runners/batter runner advance two bases from the time of the throw by the fielder. Example: In your situation, I'm guessing you had R1 on 1B. Batter let's say hit a single to RC fielder. Assuming R1 has legally obtained 2B @ the time of throw, R1 is awarded home. If batter/runner has become a runner by legally obtaining 1B, they will awarded 3B. If not they will be awarded 2B. In this case the fielder is charged with a throwing error. Easier for some to look at this in laymen's terms. The fielder in this instance can also be the cutoff man. |
| Nov. 9, 2018 stick8 1992 posts | Grayhitter59, I have a dead ball, runners get 2 bases from the time of the throw |
| Nov. 14, 2018 neck10 714 posts | what if infieder threw the ball |
| Nov. 14, 2018 neck10 714 posts | what if he had passed second but was returning to second!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| Nov. 14, 2018 grayhitter59 Men's 60 345 posts | I just don't understand why the defense is penalized, when the throw was on line and it went out of play because it hit the base runner which was in the way of a great throw. If the ball does not go over the fence that runner was not advancing because he slide and the ball hit him on the head. i think it should be dead ball no advancing, once it went over the fence. |
| Nov. 14, 2018 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | grayhitter59, do you really believe that the runner intentionally let the ball hit him in the head to be safe or get an extra base? The runner has the right to the base path unless a fielder has or is fielding the ball to make a play. So I guess that you are trying to equate this situation to interference? I didn't see the play, but in my mind if a runner gets hit in the head by a throw that is most likely neither interference nor a great throw. I can tell that you are passionate about what you believe, but the defense caused the situation by throwing the ball and hitting the offense in the head. Was the player hit in the head with a hard throw alright? Neck10, once you have already established a base, the direction that you are running does not make a difference. It was one of our local director's favorite clinic situations. I hope to catch up with you next year. Butch continues to improve. |
| Nov. 14, 2018 grayhitter59 Men's 60 345 posts | Nancy great point, the runner was ok, LOL. My point if these would have been a play from second to first, and the runner going to second gets hit on a throw to first that would have been called for interference. I don't think he did it intentionally, but the ball did leave the field of play because of his head. I just think it should be a dead ball no advance or advantage or disadvantage to either team. MQ |
| Nov. 14, 2018 stick8 1992 posts | Neck10, I believe it’s still two bases from the time of the throw in ssusa. In USSSA any throw from an infielder that goes out of play is two bases from the time of the pitch. |
| Nov. 14, 2018 stick8 1992 posts | Grayhitter59, thats the widely held belief but strangely enough it’s not always true. Consider this: 1) runner on first, 0 outs. Grounder to short, short bobbles it. Fast runner at first is hauling toward second. Short picks the ball up, flips it to second, barely getting the runner out by a step. Second pivots and throws to first hitting the runner. Unless that runner made some kind of motion to block the throw I have nothing. 2) same scenario but with a slow runner at first and a fast batter runner. Runner going from first to second gives himself up and veers out of the basepath. Second baseman, knowing he can’t get the batter runner out at first, decides to throw at and hits the runner who’s veered off. I have nothing. Admittedly #1 is a tough call to make but keep in mind that fast runner has every right to try and achieve second base. |
| Nov. 14, 2018 mck71 Men's 60 344 posts | If I am correct, the ONLY times that hitting a runner benefits the defense is: 1) in umpires judgement runner approaching a base is ruled TRYING to deflect the ball by throwing hands up as stick8 stated (tough call, has to blatant) 2) batter/runner is running inside baseline from home to 1st and gets hit (in EITHER direction). If Catcher hits him going to first and B/R is inside baseline he is out and if 1B hits him throwing home for a possible double play, runner trying to score from 3rd is also out (that is a crazy double play that actually happened to me, I was the 1B) Talk about feeling bad about hitting into a dp where he ended the inning with bases loaded AND I hit him in the chest with the ball (and pretty hard), I will add it wasn't on purpose and I did apologize! :-) grayhitter - I believe good baserunners will know from where a ball might be coming from and actually try and get hit (not in the head of course) rather than be called out, usually running first to 3rd. I know I have done that many times and the idea is to NOT make it look intentional (i.e. throwing up your hands). |
| Nov. 14, 2018 B.J. 1107 posts | mck71 you are correct on the B/R running to 1st base unless he has not passed the 40 ft. mark.. that is where the actual runners lane starts and he must be on the foul side of the base line |
| Nov. 14, 2018 grayhitter59 Men's 60 345 posts | I just don't understand why the defense is penalized, when the throw was on line and it went out of play because it hit the base runner which was in the way of a great throw. If the ball does not go over the fence that runner was not advancing because he slide and the ball hit him on the head. i think it should be dead ball no advancing, once it went over the fence. |
| Nov. 14, 2018 Garciastars Men's 40 7 posts | grayhitter - obviously you don't understand why the defense would be penalized and you keep repeating yourself. You don't have to understand it, but that is the rule...get over it |
| Nov. 14, 2018 Wayne 37 Men's 65 773 posts | BJ37 writes: mck71 you are correct on the B/R running to 1st base unless he has not passed the 40 ft. mark.. that is where the actual runners lane starts and he must be on the foul side of the base line. Actually runner must in the running lane and any part of the foot outside the lines are considered out of the running lane. Runner get struck with a throw there, play continues. You are permitted to run inside of the foul line (out of the lane) if the throw is going to the outside (and should if you don't want to be called for interference) of the bag in foul terrritory. Quality of the throw is also factored in. Different rules sets vary somewhat with the definition of quality throw. You would have to read the different sanctioning associations to find out. With the double bag we use, a runner shouldn't ever be out of the running lane, unless they are trying to avoid a collision at 1B. Using only a single 1B bag, runner is allowed to run outside the lane at a certain point so as in order to touch 1B. Not really certain about a throw going home on your play mck71 as the force comes off when you have the out at first with bases loaded. This is a batter runner we're talking about it might be immediate dead ball, runners return to their bases. I will have to do some research on this one since we don't have tag plays at home. |
| Nov. 15, 2018 grayhitter59 Men's 60 345 posts | Graciastars, nothing to get over. these play did not happen to my team. I sometimes umpire and wanted to know what the call would be. so there is nothing to get over. But thank you for your concern. |
| Nov. 15, 2018 stick8 1992 posts | Grayhitter59, let’s take your original play. Since you sometimes umpire I do believe if you called a dead ball, no advancement by the runners and explained you feel the defense shouldn’t be penalized because you felt it was a good throw you would encounter one big argument that you wouldn’t be able to justify against. The throw is insignificant, it’s the result of the play is what the ruling is based on. |
| Nov. 15, 2018 grayhitter59 Men's 60 345 posts | I see your point. stick8. |
