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Online now: 3 members: Dj Thaniel, FOFO, TABLE SETTER 11; 151 anonymousDiscussion: HOW LONG?
| Posted | Discussion |
| Aug. 1, 2018 Paco12 19 posts | HOW LONG? How long will you drive/fly to play the best two out of three especially when you already have beaten the other team three times? If I was the AD I would have the two M+ teams against the M teams and what ever team goes the furthest wins their respective division. I think that approach is much better than two out of three. What you guys think? PR NINJA OUT!!! JESUS TE AMA!!! |
| Aug. 1, 2018 TimMcElroy 942 posts | That sounds like a good plan until a major team is knocked into the loser bracket, then eliminated by two major + teams without ever having a chance to play against a team of the same rating. It happens more often than you realize. I'm flying to FL then driving two hours to Valdosta. Some of my teammates are driving 13 hours to do it. We are playing against another Maryland team in "games that matter" but we are still going- Why? 1) Because it was on the schedule and we're trying to respect the fact that our teammates booked their own vacation time and planned their summer long before the schedules for this weekend came out. 2) Because (while meaningless to some people) I / we get to play games against teams from Florida that we haven't played before. 3) Because we don't necessarily play senior softball to win championships. I / we get to see old friends, make new friends that have a common interest. 4) Because we get to play in a town that we've never played in before, will probably eat at some roadside dive that we've never eaten at before, and because somebody on our team is likely to do something stupid, memorable and / or funny on this trip that we'll get to razz him about for years to come. When I pass, I sure hope that people talk about the good times they had with as opposed to the number of dusty trophies on my mantle. Tim McElroy |
| Aug. 1, 2018 Paco12 19 posts | Very nice!!!I like it and I agree with you especially when the expectation is more teams should make the tournament. Good luck in Valdosta I can not make this one but my team will be there. We were just in Dalton. PR Ninja out JESUS LOVES YOU!!! |
| Aug. 1, 2018 Chief144 Men's 70 160 posts | Tim, well said!! I drove to the TOC from central CA, 6K RT. Enjoyed every mile! We have players from No CA & So CA who, depending on where we play, must drive 6 - 8 hrs to play the game! Self supporting team that has been together since we started as a 60 team, now playing 70's (could go to 75's next year, but won't). Yes, we have won, yes, we have lost, but we always enjoy playing the game, seeing each other again, having our families there enjoying the time together! Win Downing, Mgr, Game On 70's |
| Aug. 3, 2018 SJV Men's 60 21 posts | Winner Winner ! Now this is what senior softball is about. Thanks guys. Never had a ring or trophy call me up and say , lets go get lunch , how ya doing , How is the family. But my softball bros are always there win or lose. Its not the prize , its the journey to try and achieve the prize. Sometimes we do , sometimes we don't. But there is always the journey ! |
| Aug. 3, 2018 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | Tim, you are spot on. Good luck there. Although it does not get mentioned as much, this is often the case for AA also as there tend to be very few of them in certain areas. They often end up playing AAA just to compete and qualify. When they get to the Championships that is the only time that they compete against a lot of others classified as AA from across the country. Good luck to all East and West this weekend. |
| Aug. 3, 2018 Matt43 22 posts | Laying out money for tournaments that either have only 2 Major Plus teams or sometimes only one is foolish. This is especially true in the 70 divisions and above. Due to the age there are far less players available thus maybe two Major Plus teams in a tournament. Even worse, when one of the teams never beats the other team, it's expensive to now you are going to lose. Also, many players don't want to be moved to Major Plus in the seventies and above because if that team folds it is difficult to find another team to play with since the Major Plus pool is so limited. If yo look at the Major Plus home run rules (allowing 9 per game in the seventies) it is obvious someone doesn't understand the physical drop off in power. Two to four homeruns, by a Major Plus team, in a seventies tournament, would be a lot. Just check the Seventy Major Plus game cards and you would see this "9 home run" rule was a joke. It make more sense, at seventy and above, to go to the "one up home run rule". This would allow for even the Major Plus teams to be re-rated to Major and thus give everyone more teams to play against and not cause some players to have to sit out a year because their Major Plus team folded and they must wait to get re-rated to Major so someone will pick them up. At seventy, we are just want to be able to enjoy the game, we don't have that many more years to play. Just a thought. |
| Aug. 3, 2018 Duke Men's 65 908 posts | Although I agree with much of what Tim has said, I concur with all of what Matt43 has laid out. If we go with the one up rule for homeruns, I agree that in the 70's division, the only levels of play should be AA, AAA, and Major. If I had to play 2 out of 3 half of my tournaments, I would just call the other team, and meet half way at some park and play 2 pick up games and have a BBQ afterwards, which would save a lot of time and money. JMHO, Andy Smith, USED2BE |
| Aug. 5, 2018 Paco12 19 posts | To piggy back on Matt43, the 60s has the same problem. Look at the 60M+ through out the country. In the East coast is just two teams and perhaps Triangle Masters (depending the assoc.). Personally I believe that beyond 55 should not be a M+ division, the difference among teams is almost minimal. This weekend at the ISSA worlds two 60M+ teams...2 out of 3 on Saturday. We have to do whatever it takes to play... |
| Aug. 5, 2018 Duke Men's 65 908 posts | Paco12, There is still a big difference between 60 Major Plus and 60 Major, and I have played both. If we go with what Matt43 said and combine 70 Major Plus and 70 Major AND go with the 1 up for home runs and then an out, that would make things a lot closer and the difference MINIMAL. Even 65 Major Plus and 65 Major has a gap, and I have played both of those as well. What I have seen happening in the 60's and 65's Major Plus over the past years, is SSUSA moving some of the Major teams up to Major Plus, then get their butts slammed for a year, move back down, and bring up some other lambs for the slaughter. It is just an unfortunate vicious circle, because the Major Plus teams are loaded and mostly sponsored. It is just a fact, and I am sorry for your situation. If you really want to combine the Major Plus and most of the Major teams, then you will need to accept the 1 up and out for home runs, or it will never happen in our lifetime, instead of expecting Major teams to play home run derby with the Major Plus teams. I have also played in a tournament as a Major team as you have suggested in your first post. As Matt43 stated, there is nothing more unsatisfying, than playing in a mixed tournament and getting knocked out by a higher rated team, and not being able to play for the championship against your supposed equal. Although you sort of liked what Matt43 said, you should consider ALL of what Matt43 said. Again, it is unfortunate for the Major Plus teams, but they will not tolerate the 1 up and an out rule. Usually, the Major Plus teams want to compromise and have the home run rule reduced to 6 and a walk. Well heck, my last 2 seasons at 65 Major, my team did not hit more than 10 home runs all year. Most of my 60 Major teams, except for one, the same issue on home runs. This has been an ongoing debate for over 15 years. It will probably continue for another 15 years. Good luck in your tournaments and the best to all! JMHO, Andy Smith, USED2BE |
| Aug. 6, 2018 grayhitter59 Men's 60 345 posts | Tim, very well stated, a lot of complaints with the lack of teams that showed up, but that's only the faults of teams that did not choose to attend the Eastern National Tournament. They missed out, they lost out on going to Vegas and playing for the National Title.(wasted opportunity) This tournament should be on every team schedule. Not SSSUSA fault that teams did not take advantage of this event. Without a doubt they should put this event on their calendar for next year. PS fields where great and the balls held up in the heat and humidity. Rating on both 10! |
| Aug. 7, 2018 Larry K Men's 55 21 posts | Must say it may have been a great tournament and all, but it was a southern Championship. When you have to travel 12 to thirteen hours and no other teams sign up for your division would have really been a waste of time and money just to play in the East/West game in Vegas. The tournament should have stay in a more central location on the east coast like it was in Raleigh, N.C. It's just another way that SSUSA showed that the almighty dollar was more important than looking out for teams to allow better competition to show who really are the best teams on the east coast. If SSUSA really wanted to make the Eastern and Western Championship they would find a more central located complex east and west of the Mississippi River sense that is the geographical separation of the east and West coast. The west would probably be like Denver, CO. The east would probably be Cincinnati, OH. This would allow teams from all over the east and west to make these tournaments without having to make two major out of pocket expenses within a month if they also planned on going to Vegas for the World Masters. That's the reason my team didn't go to Valdosta, GA this last weekend. I'm not sure SSUSA got the big saving they though they would, because Valdosta gave them more rooms or cheaper fields to play on, but going from an average of 65 teams at Raleigh to 34 or 35 like this year doesn't compute. 30 to 31 teams at $550 per team $16,500 to $17,050 in less entry fees. I told Terry earlier after the ACC got rained out that SSUSA was making a mistake in moving the tournament out of Raleigh. Now if they really want to make these two tournaments a little more accessible for all teams they should move them to area's I have mentioned earlier in this thread. Well enough about this let me know what you think. |
| Aug. 7, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4314 posts | Larry K ... Your analysis re: moving the Eastern Nationals this year out of Raleigh fails for (at least) one significant fact you overlooked, or maybe didn't know about ... The Walnut Creek Softball Complex in Raleigh has been closed for a complete rehabilitation and makeover for the past two summers ... The facility was simply unavailable to us (or anyone) ... Valdosta was an excellent host ... The Freedom Park Complex in Valdosta is as good as any dirt and grass facility I have seen in 15 years anywhere in the country ... When you combine that with a world-class grounds crew that dragged and lined every field before every game, brought the fields back immediately after a couple of short-term rain delays and anticipated all issues before they became one, they grade out at A+ ... There is simply no apology needed, nor offered, by us for the Valdosta venue ... And your "..almighty dollar.." cheap shot is both unfair and inaccurate ... We knew there would be a fall-off in attendance, but that's not an economic factor in offering a well run tournament at a spectacular complex ... My observations aren't theoretical like yours ... I traveled from Sacramento to join the Tournament Director staff there and I'm grateful for the opportunity to have done so ... We hope to see you next year, wherever the Eastern's occur ... |
| Aug. 7, 2018 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | Larry K, we attended the Eastern Nationals when they were in Elgin and Lansing which are both closer to your definition of middle. Low attendance played a great part in our winning the EN one year. My only other comment is that complexes are not just waiting around for tournaments. I am sure if I were to research your example of Cincinnati that there are probably already tournaments happening on any given weekend. In Indy the 2 large complexes have tournaments every weekend. They are not waiting around for someone to say that they want their diamonds; that is how they make their money by scheduling their diamonds. |
| Aug. 7, 2018 BH44 Men's 50 74 posts | Since I am fairly new to Senior Softball, has it always been East vs. West in the Championship game? Have you ever used North, South, Midwest, etc. to play in Vegas for the second leg or have ever considered giving other areas of the country a chance for the triple crown without going to the East or West? Just curious |
| Aug. 7, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4314 posts | BH44 ... The East vs. West winners playing for the USA National Championship has been around for probably at least ten years ... Those Championships are "qualifying roster events" and are just one step down from the World Masters Championships ... Think in terms of those two being the semi-finals ... The East vs. West USA National Games come from those winners ... The other "Compass Point" events you mention are only "qualifier" tournaments, with basically open rosters, subject of course to players being otherwise eligible for those teams based on age, residency and player experience rating history ... Your question is fairly common, and has been answered the same on multiple occasions over the years ... To earn a berth in the USA games, you must compete, and win, at either the Eastern or Western National events ... Good luck! ... |
| Aug. 7, 2018 Omar Khayyam 1357 posts | A more challenging part of the East/West championship game in Vegas is that often the Eastern champion does not attend Las Vegas. Happened to my team two times after winning the Western Championship. I wonder why? Flights from California to Vegas are extremely discounted and rooms in Las Vegas are the least expensive of our tournament year (but Oh how I hate the phony "resort fees" that hotels are adding on). Aren't flights from the East similarly less expensive? |
| Aug. 7, 2018 Duke Men's 65 908 posts | Omar, You are so correct about the Vegas resort fees. I was in Vegas in July, my room was $30 plus $36 resort fees and room tax. Since that is one of the listed hotels on this website, I will leave their name out. Some of the hotels are getting smart and have lowered their resort fee substantially. Let's not forget the last 2-3 years for the hotels on the strip charging for parking each day, whether you are staying there or just visiting. Just have to check around to find the more reasonable hotels. Andy Smith, USED2BE |
| Aug. 8, 2018 Omar Khayyam 1357 posts | Duke, I only go to Las Vegas for the Worlds. I am not a gambler and the tone of the city depresses me. I have to not watch someone throw away tens of thousands of dollars on roulette as it greatly depresses me (a true experience while in Vegas for my nephew's wedding). As to the casino parking fees, I usually patronize a casino or two for a good meal (although most now are overpriced, not like the bargains of the 90s). When an attendant tells me there is a fee for parking, I tell them I am patronizing another casino that doesn't charge and I turn my car around and leave. Lots to do in Las Vegas which is why the Worlds is so popular as a vacation destination. The ladies put up with sitting in the heat to watch their man play since the payback is a cool dip in the hotel, a nice dinner, and maybe a show afterwards. I doubt SSUSA will ever leave Las Vegas for those reasons. |
| Aug. 8, 2018 r4pitch 92 posts | The biggest problem with the northeast torny. They make you stay all 3 days ..look at brackets 2 to 5 teams all are back on sunday...look at 55aaa 2 teams play bracket on friday play 1 st game of double elem at 1:00 on sat. Next game 11:30 sunday ..Plenty of fields..%) major and majoir + had 4 teams all 4 came back sunday..This is why team usa stayed away...Reid Miller |
| Aug. 8, 2018 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | r4pitch, well, maybe attrition will eventually solve that problem. As we all get older and either quit or die, maybe you will get lucky, and there will be less teams requiring less days to get all of the games in. Of course then you will be older too. Enjoy, and play every game like it's your last...it might be at our age. NA |
| Aug. 8, 2018 TimMcElroy 942 posts | The Northeast grid that is posted online shows 8 fields being used pretty much all day Friday and Saturday, then 5 fields being used all day on Sunday. The total tournament is bigger than any one division. My team was in Syracuse and had a schedule similar to the divisions referenced above, but had a blast. I live relatively close to 1/2 the tournaments that my team plays in. When I'm playing a home game somebody else is traveling to play me. Growing the program requires give and take from all sides. |
| Aug. 9, 2018 r4pitch 92 posts | Tim no 2 team bracket should have to play 3 days ..No 4or5 team bracket should all 4or 5 be back on sunday only 3..SSusa does this all the time...WE voted to stay away because of this for 3 years ..Issa and spa work with the smaller brackets and get us home...When you bring back all 4 teams of a 4 team bracket pushes finals later in day.... |
| Aug. 9, 2018 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | r4pitch, I can tell that nothing anyone says is going to make you happy, but I have this same problem at my real job with people who only think of themselves and not of the group as a whole. Everyone should be treated equally. No one has a crystal ball on how many teams any division will end up with until the deadline. What if they guessed 2 and there were 10 or the other way around? That would definitely be the wrong time to tell teams how many days that they play. As a former coach, I can tell you that SSUSA always offered the best product which is why their tournaments are so well attended and why we played in their events. When your tournaments are well attended, you must be doing something right. One of the associations that you just mentioned just cancelled a long running tournament here because they could not field enough teams. I know the coaches in 50s and 55s impacted by this, and they were very disappointed, and it put a big hole in their team schedules. I have other really bad stories of problems our team had with that same association, but I realize that we were just one team, and I am not going to talk badly about that association despite those issues. Just like your team, we just avoided those tournaments. I feel bad that you are unhappy, but it was apparently advertised as a 3 day tournament. If they advertised it as 2 and changed it to 3, then you would have a valid argument. At my real job I stress fairness. Everyone should be treated the same. You probably missed some really good softball, but at least your coach let you decide. I hope that you enjoy your games this year no matter where you play. Good luck to you and your coach and team. |
| Aug. 9, 2018 Fabe Men's 65 456 posts | Funny we can only fly...Tropics are far away! Thus, we must wisely choose the tourneys to play in. Looking forward to seeing some of you soon! Aloha, Fabe |
