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Online now: 2 members: Emmitt, TABLE SETTER 11; 78 anonymousDiscussion: Rules Question - Player being tossed (Milwaukee Tourney)
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| May 22, 2018 dug8 Men's 55 25 posts | Rules Question - Player being tossed (Milwaukee Tourney) Looking to get clarification on a ruling - 2 outs and runner on 3rd. Out team argues with the umpire and receives a warning. Player on 3rd (didn't hear warning) and continues to argue and gets tossed. Umpire then declares him the 3rd out of the inning also (we had several subs available to take his position on 3rd). As coach I requested the Field Director (Not sure there was one for this tourney) be summoned to clarify the ruling as I have never heard of an ejection also counting as an out. The umpire refused my request several times as I refused to take the field until he did. Eventually he just told us to have our runner go back to 3rd and continue the inning. After the inning was over we were told that the umpire was correct in his ruling. I have never heard of this - What is the right call? |
| May 22, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4316 posts | dug8 ... Assuming we have all of the facts despite not being there, here would have been our ruling ... • Baserunner on 3rd is ejected from the game (judgment call, no appeal/protest rights); • Offense may replace him with an available substitute ONLY if he was running for himself; • If the runner on third was a courtesy runner, he may not be replaced by a substitute OR another CR ... There would be an out at third due to the abandonment of the base due to the ejection; • If NO substitute is available, there will also be an out every time he is due to bat for the rest of the game ... The umpire may not have initially agreed, but your decision to (respectfully) decline to resume play prior to speaking with the Director was the way to handle it ... Almost all appeals/protests become moot with the next pitch ... Hope this helps ... |
| May 22, 2018 B.J. 1106 posts | Dave, question.. I know an ejected player can be replaced by an available substitute.. if no subs could a C/R take his place and then he would still be an out very time due to bat |
| May 22, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4316 posts | If he was his own runner (and not a CR), a substitute or CR could run for him immediately after the ejection ... But that would only save one out, the immediate one ... Absent a sub, that position is an out every subsequent time at bat for the balance of that game ... |
| May 23, 2018 dug8 Men's 55 25 posts | Dave - Thanks for stating other scenarios that I may not have thought of. In this case he was his own runner, thus not becoming an out On another note from a different game. A CR enters the game at 1st base. When running to 2nd on the next play he pulls his hammy - Is he allowed a runner? The umpire immediately looked at me and said he was not sure if he could be replaced. He asked another umpire and allowed a new CR - Correct, or not allowed? |
| May 23, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4316 posts | "Probably" a good substitution, but only if the "next man up" is a substitute and not the 2nd CR ... We don't want to require anyone to continue if truly injured ... It's an umpire's judgment call if the injury is real ... But I would say "NO" if the 1st courtesy runner was ME and then the manager figured out I'm as slow as a glacier and tried to get me out of there before I did any real competitive damage! [grins] |
| May 23, 2018 B.J. 1106 posts | Dave, an injured CR can be replaced with another CR he does not need to be a substitute.. 8.5(3) • COURTESY RUNNER REPLACEMENT A courtesy runner may not be replaced by another courtesy runner except for injury causing removal of the original courtesy runner permanently from the game. |
| May 23, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4316 posts | Opppsss ... My bad and your good catch! |
| May 24, 2018 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | In all my years officiating, I have only had to eject 2 in the game (1 on base and 1 in the box, both in younger guys' softball). I am verbal and ask if they have a sub, only if they don't do I have an out. Unfortunately the one in the box got ejected because of the NSA jewelry rule (had been tucked in his shirt the entire game). I asked 3 times for a sub (hint: find one, and let the other team protest), and they didn't. It ended being the final out of an Industrial World Series game. I hate ending games on things like that. Now it sounds like this umpire was a little rattled in this case, and I can understand that it sometimes gets brutal on the field, but asking for a sub is the correct thing to do. Dave, I will someday share the story of the other ejection with you because you know the suspects in that one. |
| May 24, 2018 stick8 1991 posts | Questions for BJ or Dave Extra inning, last batter to be up the previous inning when the third out was made starts the inning at second. So it’s runner on second, no outs. Normally this runner gets a courtesy but by rule he is not allowed to until he reaches third,or could it be after the first batter completes his turn at bat? Heres what happened. Next batter got a base hit. First and third no outs. Team wants a courtesy runner at third and at first. Can they put in two runners at the same time? Thanks in advance |
| May 24, 2018 B.J. 1106 posts | stick.. the runner must advance to 3rd before getting a CR.. and yes they can put in 2 CR at the same time |
| May 24, 2018 B.J. 1106 posts | stick.. also on the runner who starts at 2nd if for some unknown reason (as in slow runner) they happen to come up with I need a CR I pulled a hamstring then he would be called out and the next previous batter would go to 2nd |
| May 25, 2018 stick8 1991 posts | Thanks BJ. I wasn’t sure about the two runners at the same time. |
