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Online now: 1 member: TABLE SETTER 11; 132 anonymousDiscussion: runner scoring
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| March 19, 2018 smitty63 4 posts | runner scoring Am I understanding this rule right? 8.3 • BATTER-RUNNER IS OUT C. When he fails to advance to first base and enters his team area after a batted fair ball, a base on balls, or catcher obstruction. EFFECT: The ball is dead, the batter-runner is out and runners cannot advance. Here is a play, 5 runs per inning limit and a team has bases loaded the 5th run on 3rd base with 0 outs and the batter hits a single to the outfield all the runners advanced 1 base on the base hit. The batter failed to advance to 1st base thinking that the 5th run would score because of 0 outs and he enters the dugout. What happens to the runners do they get returned? Does the umpire just call the runner out for entering the dugout or is the call made on an appeal? If on appeal then it's a time play and the run would score? Is advancing to 1st base different than any other bag? |
| March 20, 2018 SSUSA Staff 3490 posts | smitty63 ... Yes, there is a difference in the requirement for the batter-runner to advance to 1st base, by rule as you stated ... It's probably not much of a factor, as your hypothetical also says that all of the runners then on base did advance one base, so one would be the maximum number of outs to be made and the winning run would score, IF the batter-runner had legally acquired 1st base ... He did NOT, and this is not an appeal play ... It's a bit of a quirky rule, but the correct umpire ruling should have been: "..Batter-runner is out, dead ball and all runners return to the base occupied at the start of the play.." ... You should have still had the bases loaded with one out ... Play ball ... |
| March 20, 2018 stick8 1992 posts | Smitty63, staff is correct. Let's say the batter walks in your scenario. Most players know or should know, the batter (and the other runners on base) have to touch the next base and will many times yell out "touch a base". The same thing applies on a base hit. The only time it doesn't apply is if the batter hits a home run, presuming they havent used all the allotted home runs. Then it's hit and sit. But since your scenario stated only one run was needed to get 5, you only get one run. |
| March 20, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4317 posts | smitty63 ... This is sort of "picking at nits", but it's technically accurate: In your scenario, the batter-runner has NOT "..hit a single to the outfield.." ... So far, he has only put a ball in play, nothing more ... The detour into the dugout prevented him from legally acquiring first base, and the rest of the ruling falls in place from there ... |
| March 20, 2018 smitty63 4 posts | thanks for the replies, I have played a lot of softball but not in this organization and rules. I don't think I would call this rule a bit quirky maybe major quirky. I have another "quirky" question. Is this rule only applied if the runner enters his team area? What if he doesn't advance all the way and then just stands in the base line and a team mate hands him his glove and he heads out into the field? |
| March 20, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4317 posts | smitty63 ... I would assert the same result ... The batter-runner put a ball in play but never legally acquired first base ... An alert and knowledgeable umpire should rule that the same way as your first hypothetical ... Of course, it could get really funny if that batter-runner gets handed his glove and just goes over and stands on his defensive position of first baseman ... Guaranteed to be a managers' "discussion" that will likely involve the tournament director! ... |
| March 21, 2018 smitty63 4 posts | Let me thank you again for your time. After re-reading the way the quirky rule is written and your explanation I understand you getting the out and that the runners have to return on my 1st scenario. Is there a specific reason why the batter-runner not advancing to the bag is treated differently than a normal runner not advancing? In my 2nd scenario I don't see how you can apply the rule to the runner stopping and standing in the base line. The rule specifically states 2 things that have to happen to apply it. 1. That the runner has to fail to advance to first base 2. AND he has to enter his team area. It doesn't say OR |
| March 21, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4317 posts | smitty63 ... The principal difference between the status of the batter-runner as opposed to the runners on base is that the batter-runner has failed (so far) to legally acquire ANY base, so he must proceed to first ... Those already on base HAVE legally acquired the base where they were when the play began ... They may or may not be required to advance depending on whether the ball in play (NOT a hit, yet) is caught on the fly, but they have the initial option of staying put ... If the ball drops, like in your scenario, then they also have to vacate and advance to legally acquire their next base ... This rule hinges on the batter-runner legally acquiring at least one base (i.e., first) ... Thanks for the questions! ... |
| March 21, 2018 curty Men's 60 187 posts | recently saw a similar play, with the variation as follows: bases loaded, 5th run on third, no outs: ball hit to left field, dropped in but fielder was charging hard to take away the hit. runner on third was tagging, but then took off when ball hit the ground. However, nobody else made significant effort to advance (expecting the throw to go home). Left fielder threw, hard, to third, then to second & on to first for the triple play! NO RUN. Of course, huge argument, especially since this was a volunteer umpire at a vacation, nonsanctioned tourney. I am amazed by the things we see regularly. |
| March 21, 2018 DaveDowell Men's 70 4317 posts | curty ... That's hilarious and a GREAT call coming from an unanticipated source of "..a volunteer umpire at a vacation, non-sanctioned tourney.." ... No runs score when the final out of the inning is by a force play, and in your case, all three! |
| March 30, 2018 rtaven Men's 70 43 posts | If a play at first was eventually made before batter runner is in dugout or batter runner reaches first would this rule still stand? |
