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Discussion: pitcher getting hit

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March 2
maskedman
Men's 60
51 posts
pitcher getting hit
i just watched a senior game on youtube this morning from 2016 nationals in vegas.miami power vs texas mavericks. the pitcher got hit by line drive and the umpire told the mavericks that the next person that hit the pitcher was out. ive only played senior ball one summer. is this a rule that is always enforced or was it just for that tournament?
March 2
maskedman
Men's 60
51 posts
pitcher getting hit
my mistake. wrong game. it was last year SA CRUSH vs TX VETS. same question though
March 2
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4351 posts
pitcher getting hit
maskedman ... Take a look at Rule Book §6.18INTENTIONALLY HITTING UP THE MIDDLE AT THE PITCHER on page 38 ... It appears as though the umpire used the incident you described as the "warning" about going middle ... As a Director, I've seen and support that approach ... Inform the teams that the next middle shot will be presumed as intentional, resulting in a dead ball out and batter ejection ... It's an excellent approach ...
March 2
B94
Men's 50
138 posts
pitcher getting hit
I don't think anyone hits up the middle intentionally at the pitcher, (or it is rare in the senior game) though many people will try to get a hit between the SS & 2nd baseman against a 4 man defense. In this scenario the pitcher is the only person that could "get in the way". I pitch and do my best to field my position on any ball hit through the middle and will intentionally fade to the hole I expect the batter to try to go through. The only time I'd expect to see an umpire to enforce that rule is if he hears something said which gave him the impression a team was intentionally trying to hit the pitcher. If something to the effect of "Spin his cap" or "time to send a message" was heard by the umpire then there is intent and his actions are justified.
March 2
Fred S
Men's 85
297 posts
pitcher getting hit
B94: Unfortunately there are some. We had two in our league at one time. We use the MF as the 11th fielder and they still did it.
March 2
stick8

1993 posts
pitcher getting hit
This rule is akin to pitchers in Major League Baseball. If a pitcher hits a batter the home plate umpire may deem it necessary to warn both benches that the next pitcher to throw at a batter will be tossed.
March 2
softball4b
Men's 70
1250 posts
pitcher getting hit
Bat control fades as with your physical abilities with age.

There are are only a few players that can almost always put the ball in a trashcan (any where on the field). Gary Springer is one. Failure to recognize that you do not have the control you did earlier in your career, especially power hitters, results in balls that you may have thought was going to be 6 feet from the pitcher, hit or nearly hit them. While intent may not be a factor, your ego or misconception of your existing skills set does figure in.

There are certain pitches that pitchers throw, in the count, that almost always result in a ball growing up the middle. Again not necessarily their intent, but their control fades with time also. So, if you throw the "gotta be fair ball", short and middle to outside. Most likely, the pitcher is going to need to field their position. Needless to say, I try to keep both of us out of that situation.

For years, I lived in the middle and had the rep of taking pitchers off the mound. Not something I am proud of, just the way it was in the 80's early 90's. As we age, power has a longer shelf life than reflexes. It is the responsibility of pitchers and hitters to recognize their abilities and limitations. Don't get me wrong, I will always do everything I can, not to make an out. Short of putting another person in harm's way.

Been there, done that, done with that.

Mike Adair
March 2
SOFTBALLNUTZ

36 posts
pitcher getting hit
softball4b
I agree with you 100%

A few years ago several experienced hitters and I tried to hit the ball back at the pitcher pitching from behind a pitching screen as an experiment. The screen was about 3 feet wide and 6 feet tall placed on the pitching rubber. We only counted balls that hit the screen on a line drive. To our suprise only about 50% of the balls hit the screen. Most line drives either over or to the sides of the screen and some hit the ground before hitting the screen. It's not that easy to hit a pitcher on purpose. The chances of hitting a pitcher intentionally is roughly a 50-50. If anybody has good enough bat control to hit a pitcher at will, should be able to place hit .900 or more!



March 2
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4351 posts
pitcher getting hit
Mike and NUTZ ... Reminder of the four modern stages of bat control ...

• Major+ • Can hit the ball 400' anytime, or on command through the eye of a needle stuck on the top of the outfield fence except after the team is out of home runs, then can only hit it through the 2' wide pitching rubber area;
• Major • Can hit it precisely on a short hop against the outfield fence anytime he wants and out of the park if the team needs one;
• AAA • Can hit it most of the time to an area of the outfield where the ball doesn't get caught on the fly; and
• AA • Anything that's not a foul ball ...

March 2
softball4b
Men's 70
1250 posts
pitcher getting hit
There is bat control and then there is controlling everything else.

I know one player, who at a world tournament 45's, hit 13 for 21 and no dingers. He wanted to be All World so badly, He went into the scoring tower and tried to convince the scorekeeper that 5 of the outs were not his fault and he just made another out because we were beating the team so badly. (I think we won by 8 runs). Same guy, we were playing Co-ed and the girl behind him could not hit a lick. We needed him to try for a HR, he singled because he was hitting .900 and did not want his average to drop.

I have been blessed to play with 3 or 4 different players, that if you put a trashcan on the field I think they could drop the ball in it. It was just shocking if they ever made an out.
March 2
The Screamer5
Men's 60
69 posts
pitcher getting hit
Maskedman, I was there at the game you referenced. It was a one day tournament hosted by the SA Crush here in the San Antonio area. SA Crush do an excellent job with these events and many of the local teams here use them to prepare right before bigger national/world tournaments. On the play you spoke of the Tex Vets pitcher simply got hit by a shot up the middle in a really bad place. (He still talks about how bad it felt.) There was no bad intentions by the batter to hit him and the batter apologized several times afterwards. Other SA Crush players also came out the dugout to make sure he was okay. I don't think the umpire was even aware of the actual rule referenced above, but as Double D stated, the umpire's approach of warning anyone else going up the middle toward the pitcher would be ejected, was excellent. Just practicing good preventive maintenance as an umpire.
March 2
SOFTBALLNUTZ

36 posts
pitcher getting hit

I welcome you to come to Lorenzi Park in Las Vegas to test out your claims about hitters abilities. We have Major+ and some Hall of Famers to prove or disprove. We can even see what percentage of times they can hit a pitching net intentionally.
March 3
maskedman
Men's 60
51 posts
pitcher getting hit
it didnt appear to be intentional thats why i was curious.ive pitched for 30 years. i know when someone is hitting at me or when they are just trying to get a hit in the middle. this incident just seemed to be an accident. i watch most of the videos that dave velasquez puts on youtube and have not seen him or any of his teammates do anything dirty.i enjoy watching those games. i guess what i really want to know is where was that umpire all those years i was getting hit and hit at lol

March 4
Fleck14
Men's 55
8 posts
pitcher getting hit
I have found that one of most helpful things an umpire can do to protect the pitcher is to enforce the batters box rules. Having the ability to throw the ball inside and making it hard for the hitters to "barrell it up" the other way, or up the middle is a HUGE asset to the pitcher. Not to mention I can anticipate a ball up the middle based on where the pitch is coming in if the batter is actually in the box. Last year at Vegas it was about 50/50 on the umpires that would actually take a stand and require the batter get in the box. You can tell the teams that want to cheat out of the box when you see them kicking the chalk lines away at the start of the game. The lines really don't matter, the batters box is where it is and is is pretty obvious when the batter is not in the box. Sending out a HUGE THANK YOU to all the umpires that enforce this rule, you are making a difference to limit injuries to pitchers!! Thank you!!
March 4
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4351 posts
pitcher getting hit
Fleck14 ... BINGO! ... You nailed it ... This should be an area of emphasis this season, hopefully the U.I.C.'s at the various events agree ... During the T.O.C. last month, we saw a "new twist" on this one ... A manager actually wiped the front lines of both batter's boxes before the pre-game home plate managers/umpire meeting ... Delayed the game a couple of minutes to get it re-chalked, but DID provide the "first offense warning" for everyone ... Pretty funny how blatant that stunt was! ...
________

§7.3(1)OBLITERATING THE BATTER’S BOX
A batter, in the umpire's judgment, deliberately erasing any portion of the batters box will be called out. A second offense by the same player will result in the player’s ejection from the game.

March 4
B.J.

1112 posts
pitcher getting hit
Fleck you are correct not enough umpires enforce this.. that is why during the pre-game meeting the HP umpire should stress that it will be called.. one other point on pitchers getting hit.. I never can understand why when a pitcher is ahead in the count with 2 strikes on the batter that he would throw a "low outside" pitch to him and then be surprised when the batter hits it up the middle.. I'm not saying you have to groove a strike to him but the low outside pitch is an accident waiting to happen
March 7
ESteiner25

1 posts
pitcher getting hit
As a pitcher, I understand the risk of standing in the middle of the infield. I have been hit my fair share, some ended up being ESPN worthy defensive plays. Others, well that ball is hard and it does hurt for a while. One thing I have noticed, I have not been hit by many opposing pitchers! I would say 99% of the time it is someone who does not have to worry about being on the receiving end of payback.
March 8
garyheifner

651 posts
pitcher getting hit
There is a very powerful hitter we see often who goes hard middle, often. We pitch and back up quickly toward 2nd. Those xtra steps back have really shut him down (xtra reaction time). Strange considering he can hit the wall anytime he wants.

B.J. nailed it. In addition, as I have posted before: Pitchers, after releasing the ball, assume some form of a defensive stance and be ready.

March 9
West Coast Mayhem #00
Men's 50
21 posts
pitcher getting hit
I have no problem enforcing players in the box. My issue is, you allow the pitcher to stand 6ft further back on the release of the ball which allows the arch of the ball to change. Being a player that has longer legs, if a pitcher is smart and good enough to pitch at a 6ft height and hit the front of the plate, there is no way for me to stay in the box if I want to hit the ball in my zone. I end up reaching for the ball or doing a golf swing. My suggestions, Position the strike-matt behind the plate with the plate not being a strike or move the plate & box back-line 6" back.

Here is the difference from baseball to softball batters boxes:

BB - Box is 3'x 6'
SB - Box is 3'x 7'

Front box line to front tip of plate BB is 27.5"- Strike zone knee to numbers
Front box line to front tip of plate SB is 31" - Strike zone 6ft to 12ft hit any part of the matt.

That is only a 3.5 inch difference. 6.5" were extended in the back.

Over the past couple of years, I've seen so many players being called out for stepping out of the box and at times they did not step out. Judgement call. This should not determine who wins or loses and at times it does. It changes the batter, the game and causes arguments every time.

Please note that I do not disagree with the rule. If you step out of the box, then a rule is a rule, you are out. Protecting a Pitcher needs to be at the highest priority. I just think a change needs to happen.

March 9
Jon44
Men's 55
149 posts
pitcher getting hit
It seems all batters boxes are not created equal. For example, the ones at BLD in Vegas don't seem right. The plate is too close to the front of the box and it's difficult for a lot of guys to stay in the box, including myself. I might be wrong, but this is the only place I have had issues, including other fields where the boxes are permanently there.

I do agree that the blatant wiping out the lines before hitting has got to stop. I see all the time the guy walks up and does this as part of their set up ritual and the umpire watches the whole thing and does nothing.
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