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Online now: 1 member: TABLE SETTER 11; 61 anonymousDiscussion: When did our generation become such cry babies
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| Oct. 25, 2017 L.Martin Men's 50 47 posts | When did our generation become such cry babies I read all the young players message boards and all I hear from my age group is back in our time we WANTED to play the best teams and strove to play the highest class possible. Now that I'm in the 50+ division I'm hearing the same lame excuses the younger players use for not wanting to play up, we was going to play in a tournament this weekend and the director has to remove us because he said the other teams started complaining and we would lose most of them if we played and we are just a Major team. Nothing has changed but the age of the players!!!! |
| Oct. 25, 2017 MurrayW Men's 65 221 posts | The same thing happened to us in the same tournament. We are a 55 Major team and there was no one to play in our age division so we were going to play against the 50 AAA's. According to SSUSA's matrix the two are equivalent. The director told our coach that too many 50 AAA teams complained so we could not enter the tournament. |
| Oct. 25, 2017 Duke Men's 65 908 posts | Question: "When did our generation become such cry babies?" Answer: For many decades!! LOL!! As you progress into the older age group(60/65 and older), there are just not enough teams to make it worthwhile to play as a Major Plus team in a tournament, where too often 3 or less teams attend. Almost always in the smaller tournaments. You end up playing the same teams over and over at the highest level. Absolutely boring, time consuming, and too expensive. Better to meet half way with the 3 or less teams and play 2-3 games and have a BBQ. There have been suggestions on how to increase this division. The only reasonable and feasible one in my opinion, is to realign the 4 levels of play into 3 levels. Just My Humble Opinions, Andy Smith, USED2BE, 65 Major |
| Oct. 25, 2017 Duke Men's 65 908 posts | These 50 AAA teams in an SSUSA tournament cannot dictate who can play or not play. It seems to me, that some of these directors need to be replaced, if this is occurring. Andy Smith, USED2BE, 65 Major |
| Oct. 25, 2017 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | This discussion, while interesting and a bit disconcerting, probably (hopefully) isn't an SSUSA administered event ... We don't pre-publish teams-entered lists prior to the deadline for precisely this reason (among others) ... L.Martin, from your short 2016/17 description, I know what team you play with ... I was your Director at the Bob Havins Fields for the 2016 Texas State in Austin and at BLD for the 2016 World Masters in Las Vegas when you won the 50-AAA ... Your team is respected greatly around here for your "..Bring on whoever's next, we'll play 'em all!.." attitude ... Thanks! Duke, there's another rock solid solution, actually two of them: 1 • Eliminate all "out of rating" players on rosters ... You play at the rating level of the single, highest rating index experience of ANY player on your roster ... This was actually the rule in place as late as the 2007 Season; and/or 2 • Simply move up the top 10-15% of ALL teams in the AAA and Major divisions ... There is very little, if any, credible evidence that would be anything other than excellent for the three top rating levels ... I have advocated BOTH of these solutions at the National Rules Committee sessions on several occasions over recent years, but so far haven't been able to "count to seven" on the 13-member voting membership! ... Maybe this year we'll push it over the top! ... I can only imagine the hilarious message board panic that would ensue, but only until everyone figures out that they REALLY CAN compete effectively outside of the current "play down at all costs" mentality ... |
| Oct. 26, 2017 Uncle Mike Men's 60 122 posts | I love the idea Dave. Highest rated player will keep people from sandbagging. We just moved from 55AAA to 55M because we had a player play in the 50AAA tournament the following weekend after ours. He was a substitute, only played in half their games and hit .384 and got re-rated as a 50M, because they took 3rd. Obviously he wasn't an impact player, yet he still carries the same rating as all of the others.Since we already had 2 guys rated 55M, and we were adding a 3rd one this year- we had 2 options. Cut 1 of them, or move up. If his team had taken 5th or 7th, we would still be 55AAA. Last year we had an 11-6 record in 55AAA, we averaged 17.7 runs and hit 2HRs per game in the Las Vegas tournaments- with the rock ball. We won the Winter Worlds , and hit 5HRs in 6 games with the Stote. We didn't play more because of injuries and a wedding. We were allowed to hit 51 HRs and only hit 27. If we translate that to the Major division, we could of hit 102 HRs. So we have our work cut out for us. From my point of view, the major difference in the Major division is fitness, strength, and flexibility. If we can improve those attributes across the board, we can compete at the next division level. It would help us score more runs, be better defenders and allow fewer runs. I feel a little nervous about the move, nobody wants to be embarrassed, but ready to see how we fit in. |
| Oct. 26, 2017 HAT MAN Men's 50 229 posts | LMartin I find it laughable that you come on a board to complain about complainers. Add to the post that I can guarantee "ALL you heard was" if that was the case your team would have been re classified back then. Ex. if you were a C team and all you did was play B. Just like many of us you most likely played up 2-3 out of 10-12 tournaments a year. Lastly please tell us why you entered a AAA tourney. That's not like you, according to your post all you want to do is play 50 major plus. And just like I see in all the young guy posts here come the excuses its was listed as major we dont play often didnt have all our guys to play major plus |
| Oct. 26, 2017 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | yerwombat ... That's an easy one! ... After each event, office staff updates our team scoring/ratings database from every actual game card as to the game results and number of HR's hit by each team ... We get a statistical analysis of every game played by every team for the entire Season plus the previous year's World Masters if they attended ... It's about a 300 page printout in really fine print! ... The data analysis calculates every team's W-L record, run differentials and HR's for the year, splits the overall data by games inside and outside the team's age and rating, and by seeding games vs. bracket games (to identify those teams that may approach seeding games as an opportunity to "keep their numbers in line") ... Teams that are winning or losing by an average run differential of 5.0± are highlighted ... Identifying those teams is really, really easy! ... And after that data exercise is finished, the game cards and director scoring sheets are dropped on my desk for converting the schedule sets to scoring sets ... That 2,000 game process is currently ongoing ... |
| Oct. 26, 2017 MurrayW Men's 65 221 posts | This is a GSA tournament and I should have put it in my comments. It is billed as a "World" tournament. Our team would have loved it if some of the 55 Major teams from around the "world" would have entered, but none did. We were the only one. Since this is an in state tournament for us we wanted to play so that we could get some games in before Phoenix, so we dropped down to the 50's. There was not a 50 Major bracket so our only option was 50 AAA, which should be equivalent to our 55 Major team. I suspect that L.Martin's team wanted to do the same thing...get some games in and since there were no 50 Major teams they were going to play 50 AAA and give up runs and play by the AAA rules. |
| Oct. 26, 2017 MurrayW Men's 65 221 posts | I don't think all teams with a scoring difference between pool games and bracket games do it for the sinister reason you state to "keep their numbers in line". Many teams, and we are one, view it as an opportunity to get some reserve players more playing time. Without these guys we could not play throughout the year and handle injuries. I'm glad that you look at seeding games differently from bracket games in making your determinations. |
| Oct. 26, 2017 softball4b Men's 70 1248 posts | Dave, wow I am glad you have records of every game. I am trying to find out how many times I got a hit with two outs or hit into a double play with the tying or winning run on base or how many times my balls bounced dribbling through the infield. Nevermind, I would rather have my own version of the truth. ;-) |
| Oct. 26, 2017 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | Mike, do you need that data output split between games played at over and under 82° temperatures so you have accurate environmental info on your home run prowess? ...[grins] |
| Oct. 26, 2017 softball4b Men's 70 1248 posts | No we are good, according to wife, ex-wife, and friends, I am able to almost misremember everything. |
| Oct. 26, 2017 stattad Men's 65 235 posts | The only comment I would add to this discussion is that open innings should be treated differently in stat calculations. When you're losing a game by 12 runs in the top of the 7th and score 10 to lose by 2, that's not a close game in my book. The team that was beating us handily didn't get to bat in the bottom half. So runs scored per (normal) inning should enter into it, along with average open inning runs. |
| Oct. 28, 2017 Brock Men's 80 84 posts | Personally, I agree with Duke (Andy Smith), at least for the higher age levels. Do away with major plus, combine it with majors and play the current major rules at age 65 and up. I believe they're already doing that at age 80 and above except they only have two divisions if my memory is working for me, AAA and major. |
| Oct. 28, 2017 Duke Men's 65 908 posts | Brock, I agree that the new Major division might take on the current Major rules for the home run, OR go to a 1 up and an out. Of course, Major Plus teams would not like the "OR" suggestion. If this is going to work, then there has to be changes made to the home run rule, to make it more enticing for the Major teams that do not hit more than 0 to 1 home run per game. Otherwise, too many Major teams will just reform or drop out. If it were me, I would leave AA as it is and add 20% of the AAA to the AA division and 20% to the Major division. I would take 15% of the Major teams and move them to AAA. I would combine the remaining Major teams with the current Major Plus teams. Or something along these lines. It is my opinion, that if you do not institute the 1 up and an out for the home run rule in each division, this will NEVER work out. Also, I think this might be best changed with the 65 or maybe 70 and older age groups, which differs from my previous message. Lastly, if you do not agree to these home run rules, then Major Plus will just continue to play in very small brackets. SSUSA is not going to rock the boat, as they are from a business standpoint, very successful the way it stands. And now comes the Major Plus disagreement regarding the home run rule, lol! Hey, at least I did not say to use the current AA home run rule, which is 1 home run per game, then an out. I would be fine with that too. LOL! Just My Humble Opinions, Andy Smith, 65 Major, USED2BE |
| Oct. 28, 2017 yerwombat Men's 60 76 posts | Dave thanks for the censor. You claim not to rate players but you suggest rate an entire team on the a players highest experience index rating. Would a major player really push an AAA team over the top, there is no way of knowing without playing games. You suggest moving the top 10-15% of teams up a division. This seems to already be the case in a smaller degree with the current major tournaments finalists. How much faith would the membership have in the 10-15% decisions made by an organization that puts so little effort in posting results of entire tournaments. tim mowery |
| Oct. 29, 2017 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | Yep Tim, we only rate teams ... Always have ... But playing at the highest experience rating of any player on the roster is a beautifully simplistic concept! ... It shifts the entire rating decision issue to the teams and managers! ... At Rules Committee a couple of years ago, we asked the head of the SSUSA's ratings and eligibility department how many roster conversations with managers include an inquiry about "..how are we on our 'three count'?.." ... His reply: "Conservatively, somewhere over 85%" ... If we reinstate that policy, here's how those phone conversations would end, quickly and efficiently ... "..Oh, so you're a AAA team and you want Major players?... Well, that's no problem at all, play Major and you can have as many as you want, it's totally your decision.. [click]" ... Doesn't get any better than that for clarity and the elimination of difficult to grasp "exceptions" ... |
