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Discussion: shaved bats

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Aug. 1, 2017
wolfman
Men's 70
14 posts
shaved bats
PEOPLE GET A GRIP your 70 years old you have put on 30 to40 lbs of muscle hitting the ball 350- 400ft when you where 25 35 45 years old you could not bust a grape, anyone that has played any kind of ball can figure out what is happening so please don't come to the park talking all the crap just keep sticking a needle in your ass and using your shaved bat THINKING YOU ARE THE MAN.
Aug. 1, 2017
kingofpain22
12 posts
sounds like you are "sour grapes"..wawa..
Aug. 2, 2017
wolfman
Men's 70
14 posts
kingofpain sorry if I hit a nerve///
Aug. 2, 2017
softball4b
Men's 70
1188 posts
We all have an opinion, but only some are willing to express it out loud. In theory, I agree with wolfman. I have played this game since 1971 and have played with/against players who have done both or worse. Some of whom, If I named would be recognizable by most. It is their legacy that will be tarnished by their actions.

My rule of thumb is when an individual I suspect as an enhancer comes to the plate, I motion them to first or ask the pitcher to throw them 4 crap pitches. If as a catcher I let them hit, I run the risk of getting a teammate hurt or pumping up their ego. Neither is acceptable if I can help prevent it.

I disagree with wolfman in that if you are going to insinuate then call them out by name and let the chips fall where they may. Like I said, most of us in the softball world know or think we know who might be doing either or both, but unless I have definitive proof, I will not accuse or infer.

If I motion you to first and you take offense, fair enough. Senior bats are hot enough and they do not need enhancing for them to be fun to swing. Anything beyond that is dangerous to others and an egocentric exercise.

Mike Adair
Aug. 2, 2017
wolfman
Men's 70
14 posts
softball4b I agree with your entire statement enough said did not mean to make anybody mad just keep on walking them///
Aug. 2, 2017
Sparky.1
Men's 75
284 posts
Excellent analogies on both ends gentlemen.......

Sparky1
"the Rattlesnake" (just for Dave) [grins]
Aug. 2, 2017
Lecak
Men's 60
1026 posts
A couple observations. I can't speak to shaved bats or PED's. I can speak a bit on performance. For anyone to add 30-40 pounds of muscle especially a 70 plus year old would be a monumental task. I'm close to obtaining my fitness trainer license and my studies tell me adding that kind of muscle would require a very specific regimen not available to most. Most likely someone that age could change diet, add strength and power training and lose 20 pounds of fat, add 8-10 pounds of muscle and significantly change their look even at that age. I've seen a number of 65-70 year old players pound the ball. Mike your one of them.

Wolfman if a 70 year old asked me to train them to add 40 pounds of muscle I would politely decline I would have no idea how to proceed.

I hit some balls the other day I have not swung a bat in 4 years . Used an Adiddas Melee from a friend forgot how much fun hitting is.

Never say never.
Aug. 2, 2017
FOFO
Men's 60
279 posts
That settles it. I'm getting off "THE JUICE" and signing up with Joe Lecak. Then maybe Mike will stop walking me. Probably going to kill my On Base Percentage though..................
Aug. 2, 2017
Lecak
Men's 60
1026 posts
Bert I'm only getting a trainer license not a license to practice miracles from the Vatican. Just kidding Mike tells me you guys are having a good season.
Aug. 3, 2017
softball4b
Men's 70
1188 posts
BC Do not confuse a Pity Walk with the Walk of Shame. ;-)
Aug. 3, 2017
garyheifner
622 posts
Once again, my long time opinion.

Caught with shaved bat-LIFETIME banishment. Problem solved.

The other thing all should watch is when there are 14 Mikens hanging in the bat rack and the majority of the team is using the same bat-causes??????????????????????????????
Aug. 3, 2017
pizzaboy
77 posts
If you guys don't think SHAVED bats are becoming commonplace in Senior softball I have Ocean Front property to sell you in Pa!!!!You only have to pay $30 to get them done here in Pa and the results are very,very noticable.You guys haven't noticed little "old" guys suddenly showing power while not increasing bat speed in our tournaments?I know they're working out more.Wr might have to break out the bat testing machines in Senior softball?
Aug. 3, 2017
wolfman
Men's 70
14 posts
THANK YOU pizzaboy
Aug. 4, 2017
pizzaboy
77 posts
In the words of my youngest son "Dad if you ain't cheaten you ain't competen!"This philosophy has reached us seniors and it's spreading like wildfire.Its the fight fire with fire thinking.The administration of the associations will say it ain't so but it is.
Aug. 4, 2017
cronin51
Men's 55
20 posts
I'm hoping those that are shaving bats are capable of being able to talk about their winning or placing in a tourney where they hurt or killed someone. I can here it now, well grandson I was hitting the ball well that day and, yeah the bat was shaved and I hurt a guy, but I made all Tourney. Yeah its the patch right there with the blood on it.
Aug. 4, 2017
pizzaboy
77 posts
I can't believe not many on here want to discuss altered bats!!!I guess they are a figure of my imagination and don't exist in the real world.At your next senior tournament pay more attention to bats,swings,exit speed and distance you might learn something?BWDIK
Aug. 4, 2017
grayhitter59
Men's 60
318 posts
Pizzaboy, I know there are a lot of shaved bats out there even in senior ball. But one thing, our bats are not checked for compression, therefore when these bats get hot, really hot they perform more than they are suppose to. Don't you agree. So how do you check them and determine if they are shaved or just broken in. Hard to tell without opening them up.

I once had a black combat centurian. The lid keep falling out. I showed it to a Miken rep at a tournament, just after I had the lid 5200 back in place. He took the bat and put it through a compression check and told me it did not pass, I continued to use that bat and would you believe about 10 to 15 swings later it broke. But i know that bat was never rolled or shaved,

so my question is how do we stop it. How can we tell.

If you can give a good method of exposing the cheaters I am all in.

MQ
Aug. 4, 2017
AJC
Men's 60
199 posts
Pizzaboy, no disrespect at all intended as im sure your son said that in fun and as a joke. I look at his ' if you aint cheatin your not competen ' statement the complete opposite. I look at it as ' if your cheating your not competing. ' this topic seems to come around every year but this year it seems to be discussed way more than in years passed.

It is really disturbing to think this could be really happening, especially in senior ball. I mean to be over 50 and consider this to be an option is crazy. These bats are crazy hot out of the wrapper. Why would anyone have a need to make it hotter. If your already a homerun hitter you dont need additional help. If your a base hitter, you dont need a hotter bat. What kind of person would even attempt to have a bat shaved and be ok with it? I would not want to play with anyone that used one of these. Maybe im naive but i find it hard to believe that these bats have found there way into senior ball. I would hope that the punishment for using a ' dirty ' bat would be very severe. Maybe a 10 year ban and possibly have their names posted somewhere as ' players caught using an altered bat '.

I have been softball for almost 40 years, like most of us playing senior ball and i dont think i have hit a softball then any further than i do now. These bats we use today are already unreal

Aug. 5, 2017
Bballer3
21 posts
I believe they can stop it if they really wanted to. One. Compression test the bats. Just competed in a state ASA tournament and every bat was tested, which everyone knew in advance. Bats that failed were held until after the tournament. Two. TD's have to be more vigilant when players tell them directly about a "suspected" bat that is being used and they don't even bother to check it out. I have never seen a bat pulled yet or even questioned because of the unspoken rule about that sort of stuff. I think SSUSA does an awesome job of making the game safe in every other aspect but the bat issue. Like the the above posters have stated, the problem is getting worse...not going away. When you have a rule in place for having more than 1 layer of tape on your bat and ignore a team's request to at least inspect a bat it just doesn't make any sense. If you need to shave a senior bat to be able to hit...it is time to put down the bat and pick up the clubs before someone gets killed playing a game.
Aug. 5, 2017
pizzaboy
77 posts
AJC unfortunately he was not kidding when he made that statement.Thats the way it is in the youngster tournaments now.I was with them in the GSL states(in Pa) a couple of weeks ago and they were all swinging glass.The teams know what's going on but to compete they cheat and don't even mention each other's bats!Sadly it's reached our level too.For only $30 your 280fly turns into a 310 foot boom!I got back from Cary NC(ssusa)yesterday and played in a WVa Usssa E State today.The only thing Im saying is I wish I didn't know as much as I do about bats.I'm done with the shaved bats discussion! I'm going to stick my head in a hole in the sand and pretend there's no problem!
Aug. 6, 2017
titanhd
Men's 60
620 posts
Bballer.Any well broken in bat will fail the compression test.This doesn't mean that the bat is shaved. I would bet that some senior bats would fail the test 10-20 swings out of the wrapper.Senior Bats are produced in a manner that one could almost"consider" in the shaved category.The Senior Stamp on the bat isn't what makes them the missle launchers that they are.Any kid in that ASA tourney you spoke of would put down any bat they own to swing a Senior bat.Not sure why we went to Senior Bats nor why a person would shave one but, until the thrill of th 400ft. Homerun and the stroking of the EGO dissolve. IT IS WHAT IT IS....
Aug. 6, 2017
garyheifner
622 posts
Talking about bats failing compression tests. The big time USSSA players came into Joliet Illinois for a tournament for a number of years. They played the local teams on Friday night. I went down to watch the big dogs blast 400+ foot Hrs.

Each year, I watched the bat check in under the tent. Each year, I watched the local kids, walk up, take the plastic wrappers off a new bat, hand it to the guys and fail the test. $300 down the tubes!!! I am talking around 6 or more bats each year.

I guess one way to start is to find out who the guys are that are shaving bats and make sure they are banned from playing and maybe anyone who is on a team that they might sponsor or be affiliated with???
Aug. 6, 2017
JDub
Men's 60
205 posts
STOOOPID BATS ARE HERE TO STAY. DEAL WITH IT ! ! !

I May Be Deaf & Blind, But I Ain't Deaf & Blind

Have Fun Be Safe,
Jeff Whitey White
Nazz/Elite 55M+
Aug. 6, 2017
pizzaboy
77 posts
Jdub you are absolutely correct and it's ashame that this is happening.The only solution is bats with a solid dome and no end cap but this isn't happening.The administrators of all senior softball associations know there's a problem but like MLB did with steroids they're all in denial!
Aug. 7, 2017
HAT MAN
Men's 50
223 posts
Blaming anyone else but the culprit is ridiculous. If USSSA, ASA and all other sanctions haven't come up with a be all end all solution in 10 years no one will. Way too many factors that fight against stopping shaved bats.
1. money!!! bat companies lose when shaved bats go away in young man slow pitch at least. Most wont send a shaved bat back for warranty replacement. So companies sell 1 bat at retail or 2 bats for same price.
1a. complete redesign on manufacturing cost big money. All to fix a problem out of the bat companies hands.
2. Bat Testing.... Tell me whats a good pass/fail number? ASA (1450) and USSSA (220) use the same testing process just different number measurements. My big cat tested 180 and 170 with 20/30 swings on it so does that mean i couldn't use it at worlds last year?
2a. Testers... who trains them? Banned for life or that tourney if it fails and turns out tester was incompetent. ex On a Friday night my USSSA bat tested 230. On sat 2nd game hit pitcher and bat re tested at 270. Bats were in bucket. So my bat got newer???? If I go to say a world tourney and my Sr bat fails am i ejected? will i be reimbursed for travel expenses if the tester didn't test it correctly?
3. To put it simply make a new set of rules and cheaters make a new way to cheat. Good Vs Evil!!


So bottom line is you cant make black/white rules on integrity and enforce it without interpretation!!

Aug. 7, 2017
DOLFAN
90 posts
When will it stop??? When will the little dirty birds stop shaving their bats???? Its just SAD to see people shaving their bats....as my Hawaiian Bradddah FABE would say..."NOUGH ALREADY""""
Aug. 7, 2017
Jon44
Men's 55
149 posts
I have not run into Senior players who shave their bats knowingly, but I don't doubt that it's happening. I have heard multiple conversations around people who have rolled their bats to speed up the break in period. These people do not feel like they are cheating or that there is anything wrong with rolling their bats to open them up. I have seen this many times on the site-- any process other than hitting a ball to break in a bat (including hitting a bat against a tree, which I too have seen many times) is considered altering the bat and is illegal. In short, rolling bats is illegal. If you are hitting a bat that was rolled, you are cheating. These bats are hot enough out of the wrapper. It's not worth it to cut corners in an attempt to save time. People can get seriously hurt.
Aug. 7, 2017
wolfman
Men's 70
14 posts
Jon44 I don't think any player is going to walk up to and say try my shaved bat/
Aug. 7, 2017
Jon44
Men's 55
149 posts
That's actually my point. No one would admit they are shaving their bat, but I am surprised how open some people talk about having their bats rolled. Rolled bats are just as illegal as shaved bats. Both are clearly happening, but I am just shocked how freely people talk about rolling their bats.
Aug. 7, 2017
DOERBAUM
Men's 55
86 posts
GO BACK TO ALUMINUM AND BLUE DOTS.... YEA I KNOW IM DREAMING...LOL! THE PROBLEM WITH THE COMPOSITE END CAP DILEMA IS THERE IS NO WAY TO REMOVE THE FORMING MANDREL WITHOUT THE ENDCAP HOLE. THE ONLY FIX IS TO PRESSURE FIT A COMPOSITE DOME AND GLASS OVER IT TO MAKE THE BATS ONE PIECE. EVEN AT THAT THERE WOULD BE SOME "INDUSTRIOUS" INDIVIDUALS THAT WOULD FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET AROUND IT. I RECOMMEND A TITANIUM BAT THAT CHECKS RIGHT AT 1.21. BUY ONE BAT AND IT LASTS FOR A LIFETIME..... ANOTHER PIPE DREAM!!!
Aug. 7, 2017
Fabe
Men's 60
448 posts
Mahalo for mentioning me Dolfan! Funny shaved bats was unknown to us Island players untill we started traveling! Now it is a whole sale industry! Why? Get Plenty Customers!! I agree...look at bat speed n fitness, but in my opinion Senior bats are shaved compared with other organizational bats. Does anyone have a story where someone was killed by a shaved bat? I hear this a lot...evidence would be good to pressure those in power! But in our country money is a high priority...thus change will be difficult but not impossible. Stay health n safe my Braddahs! Aloha, Fabe
Aug. 8, 2017
pizzaboy
77 posts
I blame our problem on the young guys, especially our sons!!!!It's here dad swing my bat in bp and your son's bat hits it harder and farther than your senior bat.Hey dad for $30 you can get your bat done and you can be a homerun hitter.Ego kicks in and you give the local bat doctor $30 and your Superman on your 65 team!
Aug. 8, 2017
TAT22
71 posts
Remember guys, per the rule 3.4(5) Bat Inspection. B. If a player is seriously injured (requiring emergency hospitalization) by a batted ball, the tournament director shall immediately quarantine both the bat and ball and send them to SSUSA Headquarters for inspection. I think the rule should state (requiring paramedic treatment), my 2 cents.
Aug. 8, 2017
STL0
Men's 55
222 posts
Pizzaboy: What exactly do you tell your son about him using his shaved bat?
Aug. 8, 2017
ETDave
31 posts
I know that no one wants to hear this, but going to the 52/300 ball would solve a lot of the problem. That ball cancels most of the advantage to shaving bats.

We've been using them in our senior league for several years. The good hitters still hit them out regularly and they do much less damage to the body if you're hit with one.
Aug. 10, 2017
pizzaboy
77 posts
22 when did you ever see a bat taken after a pitcher was blown up in Senior ball?
STLO I don't tell him anything, he's 32 years old.Go to a youngster tournament and watch them swing.You'll see why the statement if you ain't cheaten you ain't competen becomes reality!A few yeas ago the young guys were yelling at each other about illegal bats not anymore.Everyone has them now and you never hear a word about swinging glass!It's like an unwritten rule in their rule book now.The World's are different they test the bats but like steriods the bat doctors are ahead of the testing.The young guys are smart and don't blow up a pitcher in a sanctioned tournament thats an automatic bat testing!Instead they blow up an infielder with no worries.Any wonder softball is dying?
Aug. 10, 2017
STL0
Men's 55
222 posts
Pizzaboy: I have kids close that age and I tell them what I think all of the time. They still do whatever they want but sometimes what I say sinks in and they take it into consideration.

I hate cheating and cheaters because to me it shows both laziness (not willing to put in the work to get better) and a lack of character. I think the message from our generation to the younger ones should be to show some character and have pride in how you represent yourself. If we don't send that message, who will? We're complicit if we don't tell people who say that they're cheating that it's wrong and call them out on it.

I'm not saying that your kid is a bad kid or you're not a good parent so don't take it that way. I'm just saying that we should all be sending the right message to players of any age when it comes to cheating. Good luck with the rest of the season.
Aug. 10, 2017
JamesLG
418 posts

A few years back I think there were far more guys swinging shaved bats than there are now. The newer bats are hot enough so now teams are trying to figure out how to cheat with the balls.
I had 6 new Trump Stotes from about 8 years ago and threw them in with some of this years production and if you don't think the balls have changes just give that test a try.

Thank You:

James
Aug. 10, 2017
cyborg45
Men's 75
194 posts
James, so what were your findings?
Aug. 10, 2017
pizzaboy
77 posts
STLO your right my kids are very good human beings with surprisingly good jobs.They know how I feel about illegal bats.No where did I say my boys swing illegal bats in games?I said all the young teams have them,so they don't complain about bats during the game? I'm just mad they've reach the senior level and the playing field is being tilted by the cheated!Shaved bas are everywhere on the senior circuit open your eyes and ears and observe!
Aug. 10, 2017
JDub
Men's 60
205 posts
Have I Mentioned, "I May Be Deaf & Blind, But I Ain't Deaf & Blind." STOOOPID BATS ! ! !


Have Fun Be Safe,
Jeff Whitey White
Nazz/Elite 55M+
Aug. 11, 2017
Fabe
Men's 60
448 posts
Let me ask again...anyone know of a pitcher or any other position player being killed by a shaved bat? These stats would be of great value to pressure those in power! Have fun...see U guys in Vegas! Aurite...Aloha, Fabe
Aug. 11, 2017
STL0
Men's 55
222 posts
Fabe: I have not heard of anyone killed by a batted ball in senior softball (or other organization). There have been a few stories posted on this board where pitchers have been hit with substantial injuries. Then there are also the stories you hear when traveling about players getting hit and the stories of who is using shaved bats but no deaths are mentioned in those stories.

There's also quite a few examples of people playing the infield that I know (including me) that have permanent bruises and/or "dents" in their legs from taking balls off the shin or other part of the leg.

Good luck in Vegas. By the way, did you play for Family Stone in 2014?
Aug. 11, 2017
Fabe
Men's 60
448 posts
Yes...now playing for Hawaii Five-O... 55 Majors! Mahalo for the feedback, seems many who post use the "death" example. Was wondering if there were actual events! I too wear extra chest padding for Vegas n I play the outfield! Aloha, Fabe
Aug. 13, 2017
HJ
Men's 70
481 posts
I note a mention above to a senior league going to the 52/300 ball. I tried to get my rec league to change and the argument was everyone would have to buy a new bat. My question is how do Senior Bats (BPF: 1.21) do with the 52/300 ball or would everyone have to buy a new bat tuned to the 52/300 ball. Thank you.
Aug. 13, 2017
crusher
Men's 75
524 posts
HJ, my opinion, you do not need a new bat. My day league went to that ball and started letting us hit Senior bats.
I can hit fence or short hop fence.
You do need to make sure you cut the ball to get max distance.
A low Smoked line drive hit center bat center ball (260-275 feet) will go crazy at about 240 feet.

C
Aug. 14, 2017
STL0
Men's 55
222 posts
Fabe: I played for 50 Cal in 2014 and still remember that extra innings game we played against you on the Fenway field at BLD. That game was a great one. You guys had a great team.
Aug. 17, 2017
1bounce
Men's 55
35 posts
So Fabe your wondering if anyone has been killed. I was in vegas for a USSSA tournament when a player said (yes i heard it. Not hearsay) im taking the pitcher out. He drilled the pitcher in the chest and the pitcher from Albuquerque woodworkers died the next morning. That is why we have limits on the balls and equiptment. Otherwise we would still be using red dots.
Aug. 17, 2017
Fabe
Men's 60
448 posts
I remember that game! I played left field...had a great time! Sad to hear about that pitcher! Was that bat shaved? I remember the Ultra I Miken doing some nasty stuff...but we only get hearsay i. the Tropics! Aloha, Fabe
Aug. 18, 2017
1bounce
Men's 55
35 posts
Fabe....unless your from Ohio you wouldnt have been playing that game. As for the bat being shaved everyone was more concerned with the life of the pitcher. Of course by the time that was over if the bat was shaved i think you can trust my thinking that it would have been back in somebodys bat bag by then.
Aug. 18, 2017
Fabe
Men's 60
448 posts
Sorry for da confusion...I wuz refering to STL0 asking about our Vegas game! Not da one U were at....Aloha, Fabe
Sept. 19, 2017
xGAMERx
3 posts
I was thinking along the same lines and saw a similar solution to my ideas http://ezinearticles.com/?How-to-Stop-Illegal-Bats-in-Sanctioned-Play&id=9525066
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