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Discussion: Trump Stote Softball Concerns

Posted Discussion
March 28, 2017
NYGNYY
192 posts
Trump Stote Softball Concerns
Last weekend we played in Mesquite and I want to thank the staff for all their effort and support. I thought the fields at Hunter were good (hard but flat infields).
My concern was the ball. In the mornings it played well however when the temps go up in the afternoon and I am not talking hot...mid-70's, it went nowhere. Major+ teams were having a hard time driving the ball. It was almost night and day with the performance of that ball. Not sure if the Rock is the only answer to having a ball that performs in most conditions but clearly the Trump doesn't perform as expected.
March 28, 2017
wagon487
Men's 55
578 posts
NYGNYY, it's funny you noticed that. I was playing in the TOC in Florida, February, 2017. We were playing 60 Major. When it was cool, (60's and below) the ball was fine. We played a 4 o'clock game and the temp was mid to upper 70s. Not one ball got near the fence. It was a completely different ball. We then played at 7. temps back in the low 60's. ball was great once again. They do not do well in the heat. It was not even hot, just in mid to upper 70s. Just as you described. Could be a long summer.
March 28, 2017
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4017 posts
What's also more than a bit funny is that we didn't even use the Trump/STOTE ball at the T.O.C., yet it gets criticized just as though we had! ... Due to a supplier inventory shortage, we substituted in the Micro-cell ball at the T.O.C. ... Hilarious!
March 28, 2017
Perl
209 posts
Try hitting the Trump Stote in 90 degree Florida heat. It's an absolute sock. Why can't the organizations put out a list of approved 44/375 balls and let you hit your own. This would allow everybody to hit the balls they like and the organizations wouldn't have to provide/chase balls.

SPA Baden Fire ball and ISSA Tattoo ball are far superior to the Trump. IMO
March 28, 2017
SSUSA Staff
3271 posts
Perl ... Here's the full list of 44 cor./375 comp. softballs authorized, by contract with BSN/Anaconda, for use at SSUSA administered and sanctioned events:

1. LAS VEGAS EVENTS (ONLY) Southwest Championships and World Masters Championships is the 44 cor./375 comp. optic yellow Anaconda THE ROCK ball; and

2. EVENTS AT ALL OTHER LOCATIONS We use the 44 cor./375 comp. optic yellow Anaconda Trump/STOTE ball

Hope this helps ...

March 28, 2017
big cat7
Men's 50
138 posts
The last year or so the Baden Balls have not been very good, did they go back to the old fire ball which was awesome?
March 28, 2017
pizzaboy
77 posts
My goodness the ball wouldn't go over the fence and you had to play defense to win,what a shame!Softball should be all about homerun and nothing else.
March 28, 2017
Perl
209 posts
Big cat7, we hit the Fire ball in Montgimery a couple weeks ago and the ball is really good. Agree, there were some Badens that weren't great but the ones out now are fine.

Pizza boy, there are HR limits so the game is not all about home runs. Most seniors prefer a good ball/bat combination and why wouldn't you. From your comment let me ask you a question, "when's the last time you hit a HR?"
March 28, 2017
JamesLG
418 posts

The Trump Stote has been going down hill the last couple years and a majority of players who pay to play this great game are not happy about it. Senior Softball can ask Trump to correct this issue without changing the name on the ball and the contract would not be violated. That is what good businesses do when there is an obvious issue that needs addressed.

Thank You:

James
March 28, 2017
Bobby Buggs
90 posts
As the owner of the Evil Ball, a sub brand of the Trump line Im am willing to donate some Evil Balls to a senior event for evaluation if SS staff is interested.
March 28, 2017
wagon487
Men's 55
578 posts
Dave, you know what's hilarious? Or sad? That you used two different balls in the TOC and Mesquite and they both performed poorly in warm weather. We haven't even gotten to hot weather yet.
I made a mistake thinking the same ball was used in the TOC and Mesquite. My bad. At least if the same ball had been used in both places, it just would be one ball the under performs, not two.
Once again, the players have spoken about the poor quality of balls used by SSUSA.
March 28, 2017
Jethro
Men's 60
60 posts
We loved the Baden's we hit in Montgomery a couple of weeks ago. It is a fair ball for one and all. I also understand contractual obligations. I have played since 1970 and this ball argument/discussion has always been an issue for some. If we all play with the same ball..IT DOESN"T matter. It becomes part of the game just like weather and Umps. Adjust. Let us just play ball..
March 28, 2017
DCPete
407 posts
Must not be any standards enforced when it comes to manufacturing & marking balls; these Stotes aren't anywhere close to .44 cor.
More like .40 cor or even less.
Drop them on a hard surface alongside a Decker or a Dudley .44 cor ball & you'll see the Stote only "bounces" about half as much.
March 28, 2017
DOERBAUM
Men's 55
86 posts
AS A PARTICIPANT IN THE TOC WITH F.A.S. 55 M+, I THOUGHT THE BALL USED WAS FANTASTIC !! WE ONLY HAD 1 OR POSSIBLY 2 GAMES OUT OF 6 TOTAL WHERE WE DIDN'T USE OUR HR'S. I WOULD PAY EXTRA TO USE THOSE BALLS ALL THE TIME INSTEAD OF THE STOTE. (WHICH IS A TRUE PIECE OF CRAP SOCK IN THE HEAT). I LIVE IN WINTER HAVEN AND THE STOTE IS USED IN OUR LOCAL LEAGUE, SO I AM USED TO HITTING IT YEAR ROUND. COMPLETELY SUCKS IN THE SUMMER, OK IN THE WINTER. THAT SAID, THE TRUMP "MICRO CELL" BALL IS NOT THE "ROCK". THE ROCK HAS A SOFTER COVER THAT MAKES IT EASY TO CUT AND HAS A GREATER PROPENSITY TO KNUCKLE DUE TO THE FACT ITS SEAMS ARE SO FLAT. I THINK THE TRUMP MICROCELL IS A BETTER BALL THAN THE ROCK DUE TO THE FACT IT ACTUALLY HAS SEAMS TO COMBAT THE EXTREME KNUCKLING AND A DURABLE COVER THAT DOSN'T CUT THE FIRST TIME A LINE DRIVE HITS THE FENCE. I HAVE ABOUT 150 BALLS OF ALL TYPES FROM TATTOO NX3 B.P. BALLS TO THE "ROCK" THAT I HIT FOR B.P. I WOULD PERSONALLY PREFER TO HIT AN OLD WORTH "RED DOT" LOL! .......ONE CAN DREAM CAN'T THEY????
March 28, 2017
James G
Men's 50
6 posts

I have a lot of respect for SSUSA but they are missing the boat on this one.
I have heard there is a contract in place for the purchase and use of the trump Stote. All contracts where there in a buyer and a seller there is a performance clause. The buyer can void the contract if the product does not meet the standards provided in the language of the contract. This should not have to wait until the end of the year meeting it should be dealt with sooner and not later. We pay a lot of $ to play this game and I believe most of us want to hit a good ball even if it is 80+ degrees.
Thank You:
James
March 29, 2017
Tri18
351 posts
Dave....
Guess I'll wade in on this one. SSUSA has used the Trump Stote MICROCELL ball both in the TOC held here in February and also in last weeks Spring Nationals. I am assuming it was used in Mesquite as well based on the above comments? Let me "gently" say Dave if it was in fact used in Mesquite nobody should really be voicing ANY complaints about the ball. Several of us on the board here have been involved in softball testing and development for many years. My findings with the microcell is that it is a perfect combination of performance and durability EVEN IN HEAT and gives us senior players a great ball to hit all year around. The covers rarely cut and the ball suffers very little loss of compression even after TWO games worth of Major Plus level hitting. It is a significant upgrade especially in hot weather from the original Stote that the SSUSA has used in the past. So.....kudos to the SSUSA for making this change to the microcells, it proves that the SSUSA does in fact listen to their players and responds to them in a positive way making their tournaments top notch for us seniors.

Alan Tanner
Team 1 Sports

As a side note: After significant research and testing, the microcell ball was the ball I chose to put my own logo on and use as my standard 44/375 for sale within my own company.....
March 29, 2017
STL0
Men's 55
222 posts
Perl: With respect to the comment to Pizza Boy, why would it matter when it was that he last hit a home run. All he is saying is the world doesn't come to an end if you can't hit a homerun. It's still even conditions for both teams. I think that's a valid statement. I think a more pertinent question to most seniors that play is "Are you hitting more home runs now than you hit 25-30 years ago?" I believe from the people I speak with that the answer is typically yes. I have no problem with home run hitters hitting home runs but the senior game seems to be infatuated with every player being able to do it which I don't think is good for the game but everyone has their own opinion. Good luck to everyone in 2017. Have fun!
March 29, 2017
FOFO
Men's 60
279 posts
We played in Mesquite and we DID NOT use the Microcell and were using the Stote. Had we known that we could use the Microcell we most certainly would have as we used it at TOC and really liked the ball.
March 29, 2017
James G
Men's 50
6 posts

If SSUSA did make the change to the Microcell I congratulate them for making the right move. Nice job SSUSA.

Thanks:

James
March 29, 2017
Dbax
Men's 65
2057 posts
They said the change was made only because of an inventory shortage.
March 29, 2017
bond_171513
Men's 55
77 posts
Guys, the answer is simple - more tourneys in Vegas! Otherwise, until the most ironclad contract in history is up, all this complaining by the players actually having to use the ball is wasted. We can hope, however, that based on our input, the next ball contract will take our suggestions into the process.

BTW - Dbax - no longer banned in Arizona?
March 29, 2017
Dbax
Men's 65
2057 posts
I was released early on good behavior!
March 29, 2017
Hail Ragna!
Men's 55
40 posts
Glad to see that bond 171513 saw it right away. The only reason you used the Microcell synthetic cover in Florida was shortages to the regular Trump/Stote 44/375 ball. When the balls are available again I am hoping the SSUSA will be playing with those balls. The weather does not get that hot in Seattle so the balls play fine here. Good Luck SSUSA on finding a solution to this problem.....

Hail Ragna!
March 29, 2017
SSUSA Staff
3271 posts
No problem on this end Hail ... The annual import/shipping containers order from BSN/Anaconda got hung up in customs, so we used the MicroCell for the T.O.C. and ordered enough to cover the Spring National's there last week just to be safe ... Mesquite/St. George used the Trump/Stote standard ball, as will all remaining events this year except for the two Las Vegas tourneys ...
March 29, 2017
Perl
209 posts
SSUSA Staff

You say "no problem" and yet the vast majority posting here say your ball is garbage.. Your remark seems very condescending considering the ball players, you know the people who pay your salary, that think you have a problem. I guess the business adage "the customer is always right" doesn't apply to you.
March 29, 2017
James G
Men's 50
6 posts
SSUSA: We do appreciate everything you do to make this game possible but this ball issue is a big one. If the batch that is on its way are duds will you accept them and make us play with a low quality ball or will you send them back and demand a good product? It is that simple when a contract is involved. Nobody would agree to a contract that does not have product standards with an out clause for non performance.
Thanks:
James
March 30, 2017
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4017 posts
Perl ... Sorry you misinterpreted our "no problem" response as being condescending ... It wasn't ... But since you brought it up, here's our thinking on Message Board commentary like yours ... We don't require posters to provide any identifying information on who they may be ... Some voluntarily do so, but it's certainly not mandated ... The result is that the "vast majority posting here" (your words) is comprised of the anonymous-keyboard-courage-crew, of which you are a member, who can say anything they want and not be accountable ... That's great for you and is fine with us, but it's also the basis for our position on Message Board commentary:

The next time anything posted here results in any policy change, any administrative change, or any rule change (including even being considered for the Rules Committee sessions Agenda) it will be a first in the 30-year history of SSUSA ...

If you are sincere about advocating change, the only way to start that ball rolling is to submit identifiable correspondence to us by email or regular mail OR appear at the annual Rules Committee sessions during our convention ... The convention this year is shortly after Thanksgiving and is scheduled for Auburn, AL ... In the meantime, please feel free to post whatever you want within the guidelines, but avoid the misunderstanding of thinking that it will influence us in any manner ...

March 30, 2017
softball4b
Men's 70
1192 posts
Same thing my wife says to me except I am smart enough not what I am thinking much less put it in writing. :-)
March 30, 2017
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4017 posts
Mike ... I can certainly appreciate that ... People will tell me frequently at a tournament, "You're married to Fran, you can surely put in a good word and get this done for us!" ... My standard reply: "Please don't confuse access with influence" ...
March 30, 2017
FOFO
Men's 60
279 posts
Dave,
Since you know my identity does this mean every stupid thing I post can and will be used against me at the next tournament?
If so I'm thinking about changing my identity.
March 30, 2017
Paco13
424 posts
Wagon487...I thought that "Fake News" was only in politics. You are seeing and hitting things that don't exist...I wonder...LOL. See you at the Beach in few weeks.

PR Ninja out

"JESUS TE AMA"
March 30, 2017
Perl
209 posts
Dave Dowell

Glad to hear you don't have a problem with the First Amendment.

Your calling people "the anonymous keyboard courage crew" is also very condescending and I think you know that.

I've read/posted on this msg board for years and the ball you choose to hit has been spoken poorly of for years. I happen to agree with others who have stated dissatisfaction with your ball, especially in high temperatures.

I doubt very seriously my submitting identiable correspondence or attending your convention would have any impact on you but I will be forwarding an email with my opinion.

My name is Steve Perlman am I'm from Gulf Breeze Florida. You have any info you need from me on my SSUSA registration form.

So I guess I'm no longer a member of the anonymous courage keyboard crew.

March 30, 2017
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4017 posts
Thanks Steve ... Those who choose to ID get an instant bump in credibility with us ... That 1st Amendment concept is a good one and protects those who don't, the "A-K-C" group ... There was a former very frequent poster here about 10 years ago who ripped us at least weekly, and it felt like daily, using that description frequently for not requiring posters to ID, but we still think it's a significant freedom to be preserved ... Unfortunately, too many people in that group type things they would never have the courage to say publicly, so we totally disregard Message Board commentary ... If you choose to take the exact same commentary you have made and re-submit it through proper channels, it goes straight to the Rules Committee Chair for her consideration on building her Agenda ...

On the balls issue, there's not enough bandwidth to cover all of the aspects of the SSUSA's ball specification, and the brand choice therein ... It's performance and competition based, and it's economic based for both us (and, by extension, the teams' entry fees) and for the dozens of independent tournament promoters offering SSUSA-sanctioned events ... The goal of our entire qualifier system to get every team in the proper rating group for the World Masters Championships ... A "Smorgasboard" softball menu would have a detrimental effect on that system in terms of consistency of application of results and scoring ...

In any event, the convention is in "your neck of the woods" this year, and you don't even have to convince me of anything should you invest the time to come and present your thoughts ... Those who have done so in the past have generally been happy with the results ... There are 13 members of the National Rules Committee and all you have to do is count to "7" to get something passed! ... Every person has one vote and we have no Super-Delegates that can overrule the majority ...

March 30, 2017
Perl
209 posts
Dave

Thanks for your time and explanations. I remember very well the poster you referred to and I will not become that person. As a softball player and person who has been blessed to play for 40+ years I appreciate the job you, Ridge, RB and others do for us.

Hopefully National Rules Committee will address the softball issue and make the best decision for all involved.

Thanks for your hard work and dedication to the SSUSA and softball.
March 30, 2017
Bruster55
Men's 60
109 posts
Guys you can buy new balls after your first six are beat up.It worked out pretty well for us.
AOS 50's M
March 31, 2017
raiderman66
74 posts
Are teams allowed to bring their own balls to the tournament as long as they are the same ones being used?
March 31, 2017
pizzaboy
77 posts
Perl what makes you think I'm not a power hitter?Just because I said you have to play defense to win if the ball doesn't go out of be park?I guess being a infielder I like defense to be a big part of the game.And by the way I hit a homerun last Sunday in the finals of the ISSA tournament in Myrtle Beach.When was your last great catch Perl that won a game?
April 1, 2017
Bobby Buggs
90 posts
Dave, I hope you can hear me clapping all the way over there.
In the spirit of transparency I am Bob Russell, owner of Evil Sports. Not a Keyboard Cowboy
April 1, 2017
VegasBob
56 posts
Here in Las Vegas, we use the Rock all year long, so when we play out of town it's a lesser ball. We hit the Stote in St. George and there weren't many home runs in the tournament in our division. With that being said, it's still softball and all the teams play with the same ball so there is no inequity there.
April 1, 2017
Fabe
Men's 60
450 posts
Good discussion hea....yet I will play with any ball just to play! If there is a level playing field for alll, I got no complaints! Stay healthy n safe. Aloha, Fabe
April 2, 2017
pizzaboy
77 posts
Fabe I agree with you, roll out a sock and I'll still play and give my all.Adjust your game to the ball being used.
April 3, 2017
HAT MAN
Men's 50
223 posts
My take on this thread

A contract has been made. It wont change the issue today.

in all other sanctions a balance of soft enough to be safe and hard enough to be accepted is always being discussed. SSUSA isn't doing anything different.

I question the accuracy of the internet cowboy excuse. We all have sign ons, even if the name is posted for everyone to see. It has been proven that if you post negative things they will find out who you are and take action.

SSUSA is a business and softball contracts etc is part of it, same as fields and vendors. If we all use the same one then until the contract is up deal with it.

if this site is used to post schedules and answer questions by SSUSA why say it wont take complaints from players without a name? Why does the name matter. If i call the cops and say a crime is being committed will they say we wont respond until I give them my name? Just saying you all are the moderators of this board and can delete anything you want that is not ok. Just follow other boards rules and give a disclaimer.

In summary I think there has to be a better avenue for player input. As well as better understanding from SSUSA regarding how the players view this site. I think the reason players post here is they want to confirm they arent the only one with the issue. Writing a letter will do what? get a return letter? be placed in say... softball quality issues box? If 7.593 players all wrote a letter saying they want umps to get rid of the ugly green shirts would SSUSA listen? Would the post the top complaints from each year? Lastly, for me, I have decided to take the it is what it is route because I will play no matter what rule, ball, bat field or otherwise is required. Just wondering if there can be a better avenue to express as a group for those that seek it.

Vinny
Voodoo Sports
Cracker Jacks box attorney


April 3, 2017
softball4b
Men's 70
1192 posts
Okay maybe I am missing something, but them again I have a public education from Arkansas. DD did not say SSUSA would not take complaints, he indicated what format and venue complaints would be noted. Seems clear and concise to me. I can post all I want to on this message board, but if I really want to affect change I contact the governing body. This forum is an information sharing venue that for the most part is open and not for anything else. If you really want to be heard: SSUSA National Office (916) 326-5303 / (916) 326-5304 - fax 9823 Old Winery Place, Ste. 12, Sacramento, CA. 95827 https://seniorsoftball.com/?page=6 Terry Hennessy, CEO Send e-mail to Terry Fran Dowell, Executive Director Send e-mail to Fran George Moreno, National Office Manager Send e-mail to George Giovanni Crotti, Marketing / Executive Assistant / Publications Send e-mail to Giovanni Stephanie Hopkins, Executive Assistant / Clubs & Leagues Send e-mail to Stephanie Ross McCulligan Executive Assistant / Umpires and Bookkeeping Send e-mail to Ross Tiffany Peck, Receptionist / Player Registration Send e-mail to Tiffany Anthony Ramos, Player Registration Send e-mail to Anthony
April 3, 2017
SSUSA Staff
3271 posts
Effective April 11, 2017 there will be a new address for the SSUSA Home Office 9823 Old Winery Place Suite 12 Sacramento, CA 95827-1720 ... Phone, fax and email contacts remain unchanged ...
April 3, 2017
HAT MAN
Men's 50
223 posts
you nailed it on the head softbal4b

you are missing something lol
April 3, 2017
softball4b
Men's 70
1192 posts
And that is was not the first time nor the last time I will hear that.
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