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Online now: 3 members: Ajs288, Impalas, TABLE SETTER 11; 109 anonymousDiscussion: Awards
| Posted | Discussion |
| June 13, 2016 balllover 7 posts | Awards Just curious...how do other teams figure out MVP/all tournament awards? Is it strictly based on batting average? If it is... it doesn't seem fair for those who play both sides of the ball and saving the team by defense. |
| June 13, 2016 coop3636 514 posts | We usually give all tournament selection based on batting average The MVP award, we take everything into the decision. For example: We had a guy this weekend get 5 teeth knocked out and 12 stitches in his mouth. (bad hop at first) He played the rest of the game and then went to the ER. He got out of the ER, and he played the 2 games on Sunday. He batted well and if we had won the tournament, I would have given the MVP award to him. I also do not give the MVP an all tournament shirt, I give it to the next person down the line. I spreads the wealth so to speak. Just my 2 cents. Brett TN Connection 55 |
| June 13, 2016 balllover 7 posts | First of all I hope your 1st baseman makes a full recovery. Now back to the question at hand. Do you think its fair that DH/Catchers only who play softball every 20 minutes (not necessarily playing a complete game- offensive and defense) to be considered for any individual award especially when they get runners? To me.... talk about riding coat tails!!! |
| June 13, 2016 coop3636 514 posts | He will be fine, he has to wait until he gets the stitches out before they can build him a bridge. He's one tough cookie. I do believe that the catcher /EH does play a big role in the game and therefore deserves the right to be on the all tournament team. I do NOT think that a catcher/EH would get the MVP unless his hits won a few of the games. (Most catchers/EHs understand this) The guys on our team really don't get to bothered either way with the all tournament team and MVP award selections. (at least not publicly) Myself, I would rather have more team wins and less individual awards anytime. Brett |
| June 13, 2016 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Brett, who was hit in the mouth? |
| June 13, 2016 coop3636 514 posts | Louis Price |
| June 13, 2016 BruceAZ Men's 70 155 posts | We Vote, I'll send out tournament stats Sunday night, give the guys a day or two to vote and count them up. Depending on how many All Tournament Slots we get, that's who gets them. It seams to work so far. |
| June 14, 2016 balllover 7 posts | Glad to hear that your first base warrior will make a full recovery!!! I agree wholeheartedly a team win is MORE important that an individual award ANY DAY! Secondly, I like the approach you have BruceAZ on having team members vote for individual awards! That's cool as many eyes see many things! It often gets a bit redundant to watch the team manager/coach taking care of his "boys" while the rest of us give all we've got both on the field and in the dugout. Perhaps I should consider taking up golf where I have no one to blame for a sub-par performance and where individual merits are awarded accordingly... LOL!!!! |
| June 15, 2016 deep14 102 posts | Subject of "AWARDS"!!! When paying $535 to $795 per tournament,Don't you think the awards should be a little better than Hats or shirts or patch's? I know it costs for balls,umps, fields, insurance, but lots of teams and minimum prize's does not make sense. Lots of teams pay big bucks to play,travel. hotels.food. so maybe you should make it worth it for us. |
| June 15, 2016 Matt43 22 posts | Speaking of awards, can anyone explain the reasoning behind giving no points for MVP of a qualifier but giving point for all tournament. |
| June 16, 2016 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | ballover ... Just to "pick some nits" here, but in your golf example, wouldn't a sub-par performance be a really good thing? ... [grins] |
| June 16, 2016 curveball Men's 65 705 posts | Matt43, MVP getting ZERO points towards the HOF for a best overall performance in a World Championship win doesn't make any sense to me. Hard to figure why the sixth best on that same team gets a point, but the MVP none! Being the LVSSA/SSUSA Worlds the only event you can earn HOF points in SSUSA makes the quandary even more perplexing. How about points being made available in other large and very competitive events like Rock n' Reno? |
| June 16, 2016 SSUSA Staff 3485 posts | curveball ... We don't disagree with your opinion, but the National Senior Softball Hall of Fame (NSSHOF) is administered solely by Ridge Hooks and SPA ... The complete rules as to qualifying points (and ALL other eligibility criteria) are on their web site: www.sshof.org ... Points under the current rules are earned ONLY for All-World or All-Tournament selections (no mention of MVP's), and ONLY for the LVSSA/SSUSA World Masters Championships for SSUSA ... If you or anyone else is so inclined, they are the people to approach with suggestions as to changing or modifying the NSSHOF eligibility and election criteria ... Good luck! |
| June 16, 2016 jah#4 Men's 70 576 posts | I seat on the board for the Hall Of Fame Selection committee The MVP for the World tournaments do count for the HOF points. for the people to have enough points to be placed on the ballot for the members to vote for. We have staff the goes other in detail the all world team, the Best Defense and the MVP Don Ward SPA Ex committee |
| June 16, 2016 softball4b Men's 70 1248 posts | Since the merge of LVSSA and SSUSA. The tournament normally hosted by Vegas no longer counts as points toward the HOF. I recommend it be replaced with the tournament that is hosted by LVSSA and SSUSA in the Spring. Boatload of teams and great competition. Mike Adair SSHOF 2014 |
| June 16, 2016 16wood Men's 65 77 posts | The following info was taken from the SSHOF web site, nomination requirement pages. Point System Nomination Path Who is eligible? All nominees must be a minimum of 60 years old, have participated a minimum of 10 years in senior softball, and may begin earning nomination points at age 50. The following are the identified categories that are available for nominations: Player Players may earn the following points from playing in National or World Senior Tournaments. Major Plus & Major Classification 1 st Team All Tournament 1 Point AAA 1st Team All Tournament ½ Point A player must have a minimum of 8 total points to be considered for nomination. I do not read into it that the SSUSA/LVSSA World Masters Tourney doesn't count toward HOF points. Am I missing something? Does the word 'Masters' exclude it from HOF consideration? Bob Woodroof |
| June 16, 2016 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | 16wood ... The point I think he was attempting to make (and I concur) is that there were TWO previous events where points could be earned: [1] SSUSA World Championships and [2] LVSSA World Masters Championships ... With the merger of the associations, there is only ONE such qualifying-points event now ... |
| June 16, 2016 16wood Men's 65 77 posts | Dave, you are correct... the point wasn't clear to me... my fault. It's true that the merger removed one more opportunity for HOF points. So did the loss of NSA,USSSA and SSWS. The HOF already has so many players in it that the honor is diminished. Perhaps now there are fewer chances the inductees will be in line with what HOF really means. This is just my opinion though... BW |
| June 17, 2016 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Good post Wood! I agree. |
| June 17, 2016 Webbie25 Men's 70 2414 posts | I have never seen this before. Do I read right that you get a point just for playing either Major or major Plus in Nationals or World's? |
| June 17, 2016 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | Webbie ... You read it correct as to Major+ and Major ... It also says: AAA 1st Team All Tournament ½ Point ... The document makes no mention of those competing in the AA Division ... |
| June 17, 2016 16wood Men's 65 77 posts | 'do I read right that you get a point just for playing either Major or major Plus in Nationals or World's?' Mark, only the All Tourney Award winners receive a point (or 1/2 point). No one gets a point for just participating in those events. Still, this is flawed in that the teams select the recipients themselves and not all of them do it on a merit basis. A point 'poorly earned' is still a point. BW |
| June 18, 2016 curveball Men's 65 705 posts | Jah#4, not sure I understand your message. As per BW (who is a HOF'er) posting of the "Points System Nomination Path", I see no mention of MVP points. "The MVP for the World tournaments do count for the HOF points." I'm questioning your statement As a person with a "seat" on the HOF Selection Committee, please answer me this; if a 1st year Major player at age 50 goes to the SPA Worlds in Dalton and the SSUSA Masters Championship in Las Vegas and is selected MVP for both events, how many points does he have? |
| June 18, 2016 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | What I have been told in the past, ;), is that player would receive 4 points. One of the most important things to remember for someone with sshof aspriations/goals is to take photos and keep notes on your awards. Team name, age, division and dates are important. |
| June 18, 2016 16wood Men's 65 77 posts | Rob, as you know, the SSUSA/LVSSA Masters WC in LV provides an MVP Medallion to every team. The teams determine who earns it... they do not pick an MVP Award for the whole bracket or bracket winner. The medallion recipient cannot count it as a point (or 1/2 point). SPA has an MVP award for tourney winner... this does count as a point (1/2 pt). This may be the missing link in this dialogue. But my answer to your question (on how many points that player would earn) is 2. In SPA the MVP doesn't necessarily make All Tourney. We've awarded the AT AWARDS to players other than the MVP. SSUSA doesn't have an MVP award, as stated abov3, other than the medallion. BW |
| June 18, 2016 jah#4 Men's 70 576 posts | curveball MVP'S are treated like a all world or all american in having enough points to get on the ballot as a player for the people in the HOF to vote for. A player must have a minimum of 8 total points to be considered for nomination. There are over 30 books for nomination past and present in our committee hands. there is 5 category Player Manager Director Umpire Sponsor Special Category one can get into the HOF. Maybe this helps a little. Don Ward SPA Ex committee |
| June 20, 2016 SSUSA Staff 3485 posts | Just for clarification: LVSSA/SSUSA gave out an MVP medallion to each of the 546 teams participating in last year's World Masters Championships and will do the same this year ... They are awarded by each team in whatever manner the team deems appropriate, and are not necessarily based on any final placement in the competition or the performance of the individual receiving the MVP medallion ... The NSSHoF documentation currently makes mention of earning a point for an All-Tournament selection for players on the top four finishing teams, but NOT for an MVP award ... Accordingly, our Directors have been instructed to advise teams of that circumstance when deciding how to allocate individual awards after the close of the event ... Hopefully the NSSHoF will amend its official documentation to eliminate future confusion ... |
| June 20, 2016 curveball Men's 65 705 posts | Thanks Woody and Don. I have missed something and shall go back and re-read. The way I've read it, a player in Major/Major+ with 4 All Tourney or All world in the SPA and SSUSA Masters Championships and 4 MVP's in SPA would only have 4 points. If MVP's are treated like all world and all Americans like Don stated, where can I read that in the Nomination System? I'll re-read, but sure don't recall it being addressed. Once again, thanks for your help. |
| June 20, 2016 16wood Men's 65 77 posts | Rob, for the purposes of your question, you have to forget the SSUSA MVP awards... there not necessarily performance based as SSUSA Staff intimated at in their most recent post. If EVERY team receives one it cannot possibly be used for HOF nomination. Further, SSUSA does not provide a tournament MVP... i.e. one award for each division. SPA does provide an MVP award per division. It also provides 'x' amount of All Tourney Awards to a team, depending upon where they finish. It is possible for a player to earn both an AT award AND the MVP trophy but this is up to the discretion of the team. 'the way I've read it, a player in Major/Major+ with 4 All Tourney or All world in the SPA and SSUSA Masters Championships and 4 MVP's in SPA would only have 4 points' Based upon this scenario, you could conclude that he has 8 points... Don's insight is valuable because he sees what actually goes into the nomination or induction process. BW |
| June 20, 2016 curveball Men's 65 705 posts | Woody, I keep reading what you guys are saying, "conclude he has 8 points." I just don't see the MVP getting points in writing anywhere! I'm missing it somewhere..... I can conclude the 8 points, but where is the proof written in the nomination system? That's where I can't see to get an answer. I know MVP in SSUSA isn't included, that's why I quoted 4 MVP's in SPA. That Assoc. MVP is a more legit award of the players contribution. Off to Catalina, I'll read the answer later in the week when I return. Thanks again. |
| June 20, 2016 Brock Men's 80 84 posts | I've read all of the comments and hopefully, did not miss someone suggesting this to SS USA management. It is easy to get proof of your points from SPA. They have great records. However, SS USA is an entirely different story. Whether it's a qualifier tournament or the world tournament, generic patches are given as the all tournament awards with nothing to differentiate the world award from any other tournament. Even if one keeps good records, just putting a patch in the book is not proof and about the only way you can get proof is if you were listed in the Senior Softball News. I would think that you could at least come up with a patch with the year and words like "All Tournament 2016 World Tournament" or something similar. That way the person being nominated for the Hall of Fame would already have proof for the point for that world tournament. I kept good records so was able to at least have an idea what edition newspaper I might find proof but it was still a pain in the neck getting the proof. SS USA does a lot of things right but this is one area that you need to improve on because SPA does a lot better job. Greg Broeckelman Scrap Iron 70s Legacy |
| June 21, 2016 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | Brock, it must not have been all that overwhelming to gather the data ... You were inducted to the NSSHoF (congrats, again!) this past year ... Maybe sharing with others how you did, as opposed to criticism, may be more helpful for future candidates? |
| June 21, 2016 Brock Men's 80 84 posts | Dave, I was only trying to help by suggesting how SS USA can help. My advice to all is to keep good records which made it easier for me to find the proof AS I ALREADY STATED for the SS USA points but I would not have had to have had good records to prove my SPA points. However, if SS USA cares about its customers it's something that should be pretty simple to do. I'd think you would consider my suggestion rather than become somewhat confrontational about it or at least that's how I took your response. It's not like I was offering "criticism" without offering a solution. What I suggested to SS USA "may be more helpful for future candidates" if you would act on my suggestion. I reiterate the last sentence of my previous post. I gave SS USA kudos overall but this is an area that is lacking. It's a fact and if you don't believe me then you might want to ask others who have had to gather proof from both SPA and SS USA. I've heard a number of people that might be good candidates for the Hall of Fame say their coach never sent info in on all tourneys so they have no way to prove it with the patches they have because they're all the same. A lot of people have never played SPA ball so SS USA points are all they may have. I hope you take this post in a way that I'm trying to help rather than criticize. |
| June 21, 2016 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | I'm good with that, Brock, despite the incorrect inference that we lack care for our customers ... The most glaring hole in the process is something you touched on: Managers who do not advise SSUSA of who was awarded the All-Tourney recognition ... We end up calling a lot of managers when it comes time for publication of recipients in the Senior Softball News and the most common response is, almost unbelievably: "I don't know/remember" ... That creates a "Catch 22" where there is nothing for us to keep track of in the overall analysis ... Players will sometimes, on their own, call when they DON'T see their name in the news, so we pick up a few more there, but noting approaching a 100% documentation rate ... We are happy to assist where we can, starting forward from this fall's World Masters, but the overall responsibility falls on the manager to fully and timely inform us, AND the candidate to know, and be able to document, his/her eligibility qualifying points ... |
| June 21, 2016 Brock Men's 80 84 posts | Dave, I'm good with what you're saying also but you at least hinted here that my suggestion might bear fruit going forward which is a plus. You might read the part about "caring for your customers" again. I didn't say you don't care about them. Thanks. One other question. I asked via email twice if you could give us (Scrap Iron 70 Legacy) an idea where we might be playing in the Western Nationals that we are attending this year so we can try to make hotel arrangements somewhat close by. I know it's early but sometimes you have an educated guess as to what fields will be used during the week. With fields from Elk Grove on the south to Lincoln on the north and hotels expensive in Sacramento, we're looking for something nice that's reasonable but may be outside Sacramento. Thanks for any insight you might have for us. I sent the email to the only email address I have for you and it didn't come back so I assume it's a good address but it might be an email you no longer use. If you want to email me rather than answer here it's gjbroeckelman@earthlink.net . Thanks, Dave |
