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Online now: 1 member: TABLE SETTER 11; 139 anonymousDiscussion: International Tie Breaker
| Posted | Discussion |
| April 25, 2016 cali 3 posts | International Tie Breaker I have an issue I need help with. I start the game, in the 4th inning someone hits for me, and my team do a re-entry and I go back in the game. Fast forward to the top of the 7th inning, I make the last out of the inning and my team is up by 10 runs. Before my team takes the field for the bottom of the 7th inning, my team do a straight sub and I come out of the game (I'm no longer eligible to go back in the game). So now there is a another player playing defense in my spot. The home team scores 10 runs in the bottom of the the 7th, so wo go to the international tie breaker in the 8th inning. Who goes to 2B for my team. Me, because I made the last out of the 7th inning, but I had be taken out and re-entered in the 4th inning and straight subed out of the game in the bottom of the 7th inning and was not eliglbe to go back into the game. Or do the person who played defense in the bottom of the 7th in my spot go to 2B?? |
| April 25, 2016 SSUSA Staff 3484 posts | cali ... This circumstance isn't clearly covered in the Rulebook, but here's our sense of it ... We believe the person who is in your spot in the batting order (the defensive player for the bottom of the 7th) is the proper person to go to 2B to start the top of the 8th inning ... You would not be that runner since you are permanently removed from the game after your second substitution out ... Interesting question, and thanks! |
| April 25, 2016 k man Men's 65 326 posts | Staff, wording seems to suggest otherwise. Last batter of previous inning and then next sentence- No substitute. doesn't say when substituted for. imo |
| April 25, 2016 bond_171513 Men's 55 79 posts | Staff - this is the wording from the Umpires page - would seem to indicate that he could NOT be subbed for until reaching 3rd base. Are we interpreting this wrong? International Tie Breaker Rule Each team will start with a runner on second base. The runner must be the last person who batted the previous inning, whether they made the third out or not. No substitute or courtesy runner may be used until that runner has advanced to 3rd base. Should the proper runner be unable to continue due to injury, an out is declared, and the next previous out becomes the proper runner. All International Tie Breaker innings are open innings. |
| April 25, 2016 Turbo 34 Men's 50 47 posts | It means you can't sub or courtesy run for the appropriate runner until they reach third base. In this scenario that would be the player that is now in the game as a legal sub since the starting player is out of the game. |
| April 25, 2016 cali 3 posts | Staff: I agree with you, after second substition, that person is permanently out of the game, they can no longer return to the game. This did happen this weekend, but the call that was made was different. Since this is not clearly covered in the rulebook, at your next staff meeting can this be a topic up for discussion. |
| April 26, 2016 So Cal Z Men's 50 40 posts | Staff, your answer is exactly how it was explained to the director but we were still charged with the out. I don't believe it is what cost us the game but it might be a good idea to make the rule more clear. |
| April 26, 2016 SSUSA Staff 3484 posts | So Cal Z ... Agreed ... There is a subtle conflict between the substitution/re-entry and International Tiebreaker rules that should (and will) be addressed by the National Rules Committee ... The response we gave yesterday was based on a (rebuttable presumption) that the substitution re-entry prohibition should prevail in that conflict under the hypothetical facts presented... Obviously, there is room for meritorious dissent ... The ITB rule is designed to prevent the offensive team from switching in a "rabbit" to run in the ITB inning and to ensure that the runner is in the most remote batting order position when the ½-inning at-bat commences ... The substitution occurred a full at-bat prior, in a 9 or 10-run game, in which there was probably very little reasonable expectation that extra innings would be required ... As such, it is difficult, if not impossible, to conclude that the substitution for the pitcher was motivated by seeking to gain an ITB competitive advantage for the offense ... We would not have allowed the different runner if the attempted substitution had been made at the top of the 8th rather than the bottom of the 7th ... |
| April 26, 2016 ffdonnie Men's 60 137 posts | Umm staff, I'm going to defend the TD here. He was following the rule as written (yes too vague) as we had asked him to. Which, in my opinion, is what the TD should be doing. If he is out there making assumptions of what people were thinking or planning (or not planning)then he's asking for trouble. No, I do not believe that they were trying to get a rabbit in there. But a rule is a rule and the TD followed it as written. Hey, there are some wily old seniors out there, you never know. I had something similar happen to a team I played for when I played 40's and we were learning senior rules. |
