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| Aug. 5, 2015 1rackseeker 3 posts | Religious ceremonies at tournaments First of all, I am not trying to start a big war on Religion. I feel that everyone in this great Nation has the freedom to express any belief that they hold dear to them. My question is do any of you feel uncomfortable in participating in religious ceremonies but do so in order not to offend or look "different"? While attending a tournament recently, two teams gathered on the infield in a large circle, held hands and prayed for abound one minute. All together there were around thirty two players participating. If you go by the National statistics on Christianity, there must have been several players who participated that were surly uncomfortable in doing so because of different belief or non-belief. The reason I say this is because I use to participate. Being a non-religious person, it really made me feel uncomfortable but I did it because I felt that I would be judged by my teammates as being rude or trying to mock or ridicule them. That is far from the truth. Most of my teammates and many of my friends are Christians. I would hope that when this happens, people don't make judgments about people who chose not to pray. |
| Aug. 5, 2015 tattooball 774 posts | Our team is from the northeast and have players from a very mixed religious faith. One of our opponents which we are all friends with pray after the game. I asked the coach who I have been friends with for many years not to ask our players due to our diversity. It in no way is a slap in the face to them and our players are not made to feel uncomfortable. He completely understood and no ill will towards any. We do play them often and remain friends. That is how I handled it and all is fine with them. Off the field we hang out with them as much as our own team. |
| Aug. 5, 2015 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | i'm with you 1.....go ahead and do whatever...but don't expect me to do it.....when they do i'm about 50-50 with staying or walking back to the dugout.....i don't make a big deal about it as it is your choice to pray or not.... |
| Aug. 5, 2015 Capt Kirk 541 posts | The separation of church sb the norm. I see MLB players looking skyward after hitting a home run, it could have been divine intervention, who knows. Capt Kirk |
| Aug. 5, 2015 softball4b Men's 70 1248 posts | I lead prayer after the game, if someone else wants to lead then I welcome their voice. Participation is voluntary, that being the operative word. I am not offended by those that do not participate, I am not ashamed by my desire to pray. Mike Adair |
| Aug. 5, 2015 ODDBALL 6 posts | First of all, I'm an atheist. I'm not anti-religion, combative or critical. I'm pretty much just apathetic. I've played on several teams that are deeply religious, as a whole. They pray after every game and before many. I bow my head when they do just as a matter of respect. They are friends who pray because they believe they are helping someone, either the person being prayed for or giving support to others. Basically, I find myself just hoping that it's a short prayer so I can get out of the heat. It doesn't make me uncomfortable, personally, and I find it a small price to pay to support my friends. This is just my view. |
| Aug. 5, 2015 JimmyG Men's 55 52 posts | Other than I am agnostic, not atheist, I totally agree with Oddball. It doesn't make me uncomfortable at all and I participate as a matter of respect to my friends, teammates and opponents. |
| Aug. 5, 2015 armiho211 Men's 70 449 posts | DITTO with ODDBALL and JimmyG : No discomfort on my part. IF somebody walks away, no big deal, we respect everybody's opinion. i am catholic, not exactly a devout one. MY wife drags me to church every sunday monday. " I CO-EXIST" ! DONT NEED MY WIFE HARPING ON ME. KEEPS THE PEACE IN THE FAMILY, AND SHE DOESNT YELL WHEN ANOTHER TOURNAMENT COMES UP and i have to go... |
| Aug. 5, 2015 PJ3P Men's 50 94 posts | Personally I make an effort to invite the umpires to join in at the mound after the game. I have found that most really appreciate being offered an opportunity to do so. I think it is a great idea for both teams to participate because it offers an opportunity to leave whatever happened during the game on the field. Also it seems like this time on the mound is where the competitive natures get put away and friendships have a greater chance to develop. |
| Aug. 5, 2015 stick8 1991 posts | PJ3P, speaking as a Christian you nailed it!! 1rackseeker, if anyone feels offended or feels your being rude should you choose not to participate in an after-game prayer rest assured they're just acting insecure |
| Aug. 5, 2015 3rdbase 9 posts | If you choose to walk away, rest assured I personally don't care. Those who choose to stay give me strength in the fact that even if you don't care about me or my fellow players, I will survive without you. Keep your religious belief to yourself and nobody is effected. |
| Aug. 5, 2015 hemi racer Men's 65 237 posts | Personal I don't know what I would have done at times in my life if I didn't have my faith and pray. Knowing I will get to see my loved ones again. Wouldn't want to face a day with out it. Personal I cherish every time I get to take part in prayer and thank GOD for looking over me, ball field, church, where ever. Everyone is different I know. |
| Aug. 5, 2015 Tim Millette 615 posts | I am a practicing catholic and I have to admit..I see no place on a softball field for prayer. This is kinda a hot button to me. If a player or players want to pray quietly I have no problem with it but the group huddle before the game and or after is not for the let's pray stuff as far as I am concerned and it does nothing for me. I played on a team that had one player lead a prayer before every game and after the game very often.. He was the first player to buy a shaved out/titanium sleeved aluminum bat and cheated on his wife often...but every game as we huddled up he had to preach how lucky we were to be playing and healthy. Personally...if I want to get together with a group to pray I go to church...if you come to our family functions we say grace before we eat..if you want to sit quietly that's fine...it's our family house so it's our family ritual.. when we go to another's house and eat dinner we do not force everyone to pray...I see the softball field in the same manner...unless you own the field/and pay for the games...say your prayers quietly to yourself. It's no problem to share that you are trying to live a religious life..other then that..be quiet and lead by example...which as far as I am concerned with the preacher guys starts and ends with sportsmanship on a softball field..no shaved bats, no cooled balls, no cutting players to get better (I don't think Jesus cut anyone to get down to the top 12 Apostles), no yelling at or showing up players or umpires, etc, etc...sorry for the long post |
| Aug. 5, 2015 DieselDan Men's 75 600 posts | "When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6"But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. 7"And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.…" |
| Aug. 5, 2015 Eurskine Men's 50 185 posts | Hemi Racer... I'm with you !!! Yes, Times have changed,and we all have adjusted to a walk with a different beat.In 65-66, I was in Vietnam in a Foxhole wishing i was back home in North Carolina,The only thing that kept me going was Prayers and My FAITH.I was scared and had little faith,but that faith grew..and my confidence also grew. Do i feel like the Prayers brought me through..Yes I do....did it strengthen my faith...yes it did.Do i thank him each day for getting me through it all ..Yes i do... Will i pray on the Ball field......Yes MY TEAM WILL. I thank him for Everything i have...and i thank him for YOU. I don't Force this on my Team,or anybody but the Players that i pick to play on the Squad, Values and Moral Beliefs when it comes to this, are Similiar. I also thank God for looking over me and YOU...... |
| Aug. 6, 2015 Perl 212 posts | As a guy who often prays after games I am honored and humbled to share my faith with fellow softball players. I respect those who may not believe and don't want to participate. Passing judgement on anyone is way above my pay grade. I love being a witness as well as hearing others do the same. |
| Aug. 6, 2015 hitman Men's 70 339 posts | We usually pray both before our games as a team and after the games with both teams on the mound. I feel that the mound sessions creates a unique bonding session for both teams as we submit our prayer list and concerns for family, friends and loved ones along with all those who served in the Armed Forces. It also gives the opportunity to offer praises in those case where prayers have been answered. Recently we offered praise for a teammate who celebrated 8 years of success for a liver transplant and now he is battling an unknown infection and with GOD's will he can continue to be an active member of the TEAM. AMEN!!!!! |
| Aug. 6, 2015 Rev#7 Men's 50 16 posts | Great subject! I am a practicing christian, lol.. On the field, off the field, at work and at "church". For the last 15 years I have redicated my life to the lord and realize that my abilities to play softball or any sport come from Christ and that these gifts can be taken away at any moment. So I relish those moments on the field and give God the Glory and credit. I am blessed and honored to have my teammates ask me to lead in prayer every game we play. We are MTC 55 varsity ....Kurt Mahanney is the manager. We welcome anybody to join us before the game...players, umpires, spectators.. Thanks for freedom of choice. God bless Dan Arevalos~~REV |
| Aug. 7, 2015 hemi racer Men's 65 237 posts | (1st.) DieselDan, I fell we are far from hypocrites as there is no one to see us but the ones participating in pray with us. I'm never ashamed to show my faith publicly. If we deny him while we're here on earth, HE will deny us when we face judgment. (2nd.) Eurskine, I want to say THANK-YOU for your service in Vietnam and to all you Vets. Plus all of you that have spoke up on your faith on this venue. I didn't have to go to Vietnam(4F), but I am very grateful for you that went in my place. Thanks SSUSA for allowing us to express our views. |
| Aug. 7, 2015 BobV 1 posts | "Behold how good and pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity." I appreciate the freedom to pray publicly with my teammates and with members of other teams. It helps strengthen my faith to know I have this unity with others . . . even though we have never met. |
| Aug. 7, 2015 antieinstein Men's 70 53 posts | If someone wants to pray who cares. Walk away if you don't like it. On the other hand don't push your believes on others. |
| Aug. 7, 2015 ODDBALL 6 posts | antieinstein, well said. Yours should have been the second post. |
| Aug. 7, 2015 antieinstein Men's 70 53 posts | Thanks oddball I am a believer but I respect your point of view and wish both sides could do the same. |
| Aug. 7, 2015 Omar Khayyam 1357 posts | Haven't had the opportunity to be part of prayer on the softball field in recent years, but 20-30 years ago, one team in our rec league started it and soon all the teams were praying before and sometimes after games. Don't remember if the ump was invited. Most of the guys gathered together. It was usually short. It was almost always a prayer for playing our best and good sportsmanship and always a prayer for any player who got hurt during the game. Very inoffensive. Hard to see how anyone could be bothered by it or feel someone was "pushing" their religion or "preaching" at them. Best benefits were it always diffused any bad feelings from a play on the field and it gave players on both teams the perspective that there is more to being fellow neighbors than softball. |
| Aug. 8, 2015 southpaw Men's 70 1077 posts | Well said Alan and all. Considering the upheaval in our country, religiously, culturally, societally, etc., I appreciate the tone which everyone here has taken. It has only happened once and that was over 10 years ago, but most of a team actually used profanity toward me when I invited them to join my team in prayer after a game in Montgomery. I am a retired Baptist pastor so prayer is a natural part of my life for almost 40 years. I know that is not true for everyone. Erk, I do not even think the old saying from the World Wars is true any more: "There are no atheists in foxholes!" Respect for others' beliefs or non-beliefs is an important aspect of Christian doctrine as well as our nation's doctrines, but honor and respect for the ONE on whom our faith is founded is also important. If HIS followers do not do so, then Scripture declares that "even the rocks and hills will". Prayer is a venue to do so as well as the many other examples of it's value as stated above. Life is short; we seniors are all on the wrong end of it. I believe there is a God and Jesus is HIS SON. Something to think about: if I am wrong; so what. If I am right..... |
| Aug. 9, 2015 antieinstein Men's 70 53 posts | If someone wants to join in fine but asking them to pray can make them feel pressured to take part. I also think GOD has more important things to do then help you and your team play well. Also Preach from the pulpit not a softball message board. |
| Aug. 9, 2015 Duke Men's 65 908 posts | Have to say that feeling pressure to pray is not the intention of anyone. I believe that is an individual choice and the implied pressure comes from those that are simply uncomfortable. The teams that I have been on usually pray about a teammate that has been injured or having some issues in his life. Most of the time, prayers have been directed to not having any injuries to either team and to demonstrate good sportsmanship. As Christians, we are taught to spread the word of God to everyone, whether from the pulpit or outreaching in the streets of the world. If one person can be saved by the utilization of this message board, then that is a blessing or is that a mitzva in the Jewish reigion!? Mazul Tav, Andy Smith, R & R Strokers, 60 Major Plus |
| Aug. 9, 2015 antieinstein Men's 70 53 posts | So I guess if you don't pray on a ball field you don't care about others and we want people to get injured and we are bad sports. MR Mr Smith Mel Gibson feels the same as you I rest my case. |
| Aug. 9, 2015 Duke Men's 65 908 posts | Mr Antieinstein, Way to twist what I said. Not a big deal sir. As always, we are all entitled to speak our mind. Pray and hope you have a terrific week, but that does not mean, you will not have a terrific week, if I do not pray. Take care, Andy Smith, R & R Strokers, 60 Major Plus |
| Aug. 9, 2015 antieinstein Men's 70 53 posts | I know who you are just a pitcher with an attitude. The only thing you pray to is a statue of yourself. |
| Aug. 9, 2015 Steve Butler Men's 50 15 posts | Softball and Jesus are what I'm all about. I've shared the Gospel after softball games 500+ times in 78 different prisons around the nation, Taiwan and Beijing. Having said that, after games in tournaments I'm ready to go sit in the shade and relax. If I'm on a team that meets on the mound I'm good with that. If not, I'm good with that too. I'm never offended if someone does not believe what I believe. |
| Aug. 9, 2015 antieinstein Men's 70 53 posts | Mr Butler I agree with you 100% and respect the good you have done to help others. Bless You!! |
| Aug. 9, 2015 DCPete 409 posts | If anyone brings any live snakes out to the mound I'm definitely staying in the dugout . . . |
| Aug. 10, 2015 1rackseeker 3 posts | I appreciate all the nice feedback. As I stated in my post, many of my friends and family are Christians. Two guys that I worked with for twenty years invited me to lunch a few years back. The three of us have hunted, fished, hung out, gone out to dinner with our wives, etc. many times. I guess they had the feeling that I was not a Christian. When we met for lunch, they presented a bible for me and wanted to discuss being "saved". This is the first time that I ever looked anyone in the eye and told them that I am an Atheist. I told them that we had been friends for many years and that if religion was going to end our friendship that would be a sad thing. I know people who do things like this are well meaning. They are convicted to their belief and that is great. I also know that they feel that they should "spread the word" to others in order to save their souls from hell. I get all of that. But I would never, ever in a million years start asking people to "not" believe. On they way home, I was wondering what their reaction would have been had I said something like "Hey guys, let me tell you about my Atheist feelings." I am 68 years old. I have participated in religious ceremonies hundreds of times. It made me uncomfortable but many family members and friends are Christians and I didn't want to offend them by not participating at Christmas events, baptisms, funerals, etc. I guess as I have grown older, I feel like I am being a hypocrite to myself by not getting up and leaving. I am sure that most of my relatives and friends think I am religious also. Anyway, I hope everyone will judge others by their character and not their religious or non-religious beliefs. |
| Aug. 10, 2015 swing for the fences Men's 50 1224 posts | 1rackseeker, well said... I judge everyone on their character and never on their religious Beliefs. I don't care one way or another if my teammates want to have a prayer(which they don't) before or after the games, I won't be a part of it because of my own beliefs.. To each his own and if it's not hurting anyone, go for it! |
| Aug. 10, 2015 Webbie25 Men's 70 2414 posts | Matthew 18:20 - For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Until I joined Mike Adair's team, I never saw a team pray after a game. Now I feel I would miss it if it did not happen any more. We 'invite' people to join us, we do not 'ask' them. There is a difference. Most do join us, but NOBODY that I know of judges anyone that wishes not to. We, IN NO WAY, do it to make people uncomfortable. Our prayers include prayers for the sick or hurt that we know of in the tournament, whether our team or not. We pray for safe travel to and from tournaments. We feel strength from these prayers, knowing we are not alone. Many things in America now are making me uncomfortable. These beliefs have been formed by upbringing, life experiences, and many other things. However, I am not out there attempting so stop people from practicing THEIR beliefs, just because I am uncomfortable with them. It is not my RIGHT to tell people they cannot practice those beliefs, just because they are not mine. I walk away. Period. I also expect the same courtesy. If your beliefs are not the same as mine, please just walk away and let that be the end of it. I pray that this trend that allows a few vocal people to infringe on the rights and beliefs of the rest of us does not continue. Amen. |
| Aug. 10, 2015 ODDBALL 6 posts | This discussion is a good example of the old saying," don't discuss race, religion or politics in polite company ". Antieinstein's fist post said it all. Muslims, Christians, Jews and many other religion are taught that they must proselyte. So when the occasion presents itself, they feel they must testify. Some do it because they truly feel it is the right thing to do and some do to elevate their status in the eyes of other believers. However, the vast majority of readers on this site are around sixty years old. They have had a long life during which they have decided what to believe and what not to believe. Some, like myself, don't care one way or the other. Some are uncomfortable, especially when they are in the minority. Some have had terrible experiences and horrible remembrances. Some view the proselyte as arrogant and condescending because they feel that they know more than the person to whom they are speaking. If you want to join the prayer, do. If you don't, walk away. If some don't join your group on their own, just leave them alone. They all know what you are doing, they don't need an invitation. Just a few thoughts, some of which are redundant of this thread. |
| Aug. 11, 2015 stick8 1991 posts | This discussion is a good example of the old saying," don't discuss race, religion or politics in polite company ". Antieinstein's fist post said it all. --Very true. Allow me to add "and when indulging in adult beverages" |
| Aug. 11, 2015 GI Men's 60 228 posts | Just wanted to say thanks for all that gave a view. It may not be to long before that right is taken from us. To be honest Webbie you are right on and a wise man for taking a moral high ground. I would rather any day hear a positive word on the field than some of the words that should get a player kicked out of the game. I work with school kids everyday for past 38 years and they listen and learn from what they see dad grandpa etc do on the field and everywhere else. Hearing the F word every day has become a common thing . The kids think it is ok also and I have often been called a cuss word at school by a student and later a parent who is upset that his child was in trouble for expressing his feelings. I tell the kids no one ever wins in a fight or with a put down word. I struggle with our leaders saying old ways of living no longer matter. The recent 5-4 supreme court rule showed Christans no longer are respected but as believers we should understand that this is the way it will continue till the end. As was said before If I am wrong for believing than it will not matter we just die but what if we are right? I work with people of different and no beliefs Gays etc. I have no problem with that in fact they are some of my most trusted people I work with at school etc. They respect my views and I respect theirs right back.Best thing I remember about my dad who worked 40 plus years in steel mill was when another worker came up to me and said some people talk religion and others like your dad live it. I want to be the same as my father. I mess up but I hope I can find a way to make it right with you if I do offend. Hugs to all my friends playing a kids game. Peace-GI |
| Aug. 12, 2015 hemi racer Men's 65 237 posts | AMEN GI!!! You and I have been witness to a lot of changes in our life time and most changes not good ones. I think the family unit has suffered the most. The Men of America in general have really let us down. We have kids and then don't want to support them. That's why a majority of them grow up angry and rebel. We are appointed head of our household and will be held accountable for this on judgment day. Our morals have deteriorated also. As far as Christians not being respected I believe that's on us. Some how we didn't instill the values our parents give us to our children. I pray our country returns to the values it was founded on before it's to late. |
