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Discussion: 50 MAJOR & MAJOR PLUS COMBINED

Posted Discussion
Feb. 24, 2015
BiggDan
Men's 50
14 posts
50 MAJOR & MAJOR PLUS COMBINED
TO THE DISCUSSION ABOUT THE 50 MAJOR & 50 MAJOR PLUS DIVISIONS SHOULD COMBINE. TALKING ABOUT USING A SCREEN, THAT IS A GOOD IDEA. ANOTHER SANTION IN SOUTH GEORGIA USES THEM AND IT WORKS GREAT. WHEN YOU PLACE A TEAM IN A MAJOR PLUS DIVISION, THE DIFFERENT ASSOCIATION'S DO NOT HAVE MANY 50 MAJOR PLUS TEAMS. THE TEAMS ON THE EAST COAST, ARE TOLD TO TRAVEL ACCROSS THE UNITED STATES. WHO IS GOING PAY FOR THESE TEAMS TO TRAVEL. THE TEAMS THAT PLAY , PAY THESE $500.00,$600.00 & $700.00'S FOR THESE TOURNAMENT'S. PEOPLE THIS DAY AND TIME WITH THE ECONOMY THE WAY IT IS, IS TOUGH TO TRAVEL. ANY PLAYER THAT PLAYS ON THE SENIOR CIRCUIT, SPENDS MAYBE $600.00 TO $700.00 A WEEKEND. AND THE PRICES WE PAY TO PLAY ARE UNREAL. WE AS SENIOR PLAYERS AND TEAMS ,SHOULD SPEAK WITH THE ASSOCIATION'S. AS WE HAVE GOTTTTEN OLDER, WE STILL LOVE THE GAME. LETS VOICE OUR OPINION AND LET THEM KNOW ABOUIT HOW WE FEEL. THESE TWO SUBJECTS NEED TO BE ADDRESSED. LETS HERE YOUR OPINION. KEEP HITTING THEM.
Feb. 24, 2015
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1224 posts
Never combine the major and + division... only the upper 5 percent can compete in + ball if lucky.. plus ball usually has sponsors to cover cost.. End of Story.
Feb. 24, 2015
Tim Millette
615 posts
I am with swing...NEVER COMBINE major and Plus...amost all the Plus guys have been saying...

"leave us alone...we just want to play against the best...our Plus program is doing just great.... And....WHATEVER YOU DO!!! DONT TRY TO RESTRICT THE POWER HOUSE PLUS TEAMS THAT ARE KEEPING THE MAJOR TEAMS FROM WANTING TO MOVE UP".
Feb. 24, 2015
Mario
Men's 50
451 posts
You know what is a bummer is when you want to play Major plus and you can't find a team. Thats why breaking up Plus winners will never work. Like swing says most Plus teams have sponsors. When our OKI team lost its sponsor I would never have dreamed that I would not find a Plus team to play on. Thats why we should never combine Major and Major Plus.
Feb. 25, 2015
Tim Millette
615 posts
Mario, sorry to read a player with your prowess has no options for a Plus team.

It kinda ends the notion some on this site has have written about Plus doing fine/just leave us alone.

My view has kinda evolved on breaking up Plus champions...at this time I would first try to allow the keep Plus Championship teams together EXCEPT..at Worlds they would have to play in the next youngest age groups Major division for the next two seasons...

If...the champion team wanted to build a team to play in the Plus division they were champion in...they, along with every other Plus team, would have to fit under the roster restrictions of no more then 6 "in age group" plus champion players.
Feb. 25, 2015
BiggDan
Men's 50
14 posts
THE PROBLEM WITH THE PLUS DIVISION IS THERE ARE NO TEAMS TO PLAY. THERE ARE THESE TEAMS THAT STAY IN MAJOR OR AAA AND NEVER MOVE UP. IT IS WHO YOU KNOW. THERE ARE TEAMS THAT ARE IN MAJOR PLUS THAT CAN'T AFFORD TO TRAVEL AND PLAY BEST 2 OUT OF 3 TOURNAMENTS. THESE GUYS THAT ARE TALKING ABOUT NOT COMBINING ARE NOT BEING FAIR. WHAT I BELIEVE THEY SHOULD DO IS LET THEM PLAY IN FOUR TOURNAMENTS, FIND OUT HOW THEY DO. BUT NOT IN A TWO OR THREE TEAM TOURNAMENT. IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO FIND OUT JUST WHAT TEAMS ARE SPEAKING ON HERE. THE TEAM WE HAVE DID NOT WIN OR COME CLOSE TO WINNING A TOURNAMENT LAST YEAR. WE ALSO LOST SEVEN PLAYERS ,SOME TO 55 MAJOR OR PLUS DIVISION. SOME TEAMS FINISH ONE AND TWO ALL SEASON LONG AND DO NOT GET MOVED UP. YOU MUST ALSO UNDERSTAND WE ARE ALL 50 AND ABOVE . WE ARE IN THIS SPORT TO ENJOY. GOD BLESS. PLAY SAFE.
Feb. 25, 2015
Paco13
424 posts
It is interesting that ISSA have no Major + team and you don't hear anybody complaining. SSUSA in my opinion is way too strict and have way too many rules. Personally I care less for SSUSA and I know for fact that a lot of teams on the East coast don’t play that many SSUSA tourneys just because of that. In marketing and business I was taught to go after the larger market and cater to them. On the avg tourney how many M or M+ teams enters 1, 2 maybe 3 and if it is large enough maybe 4 or 5. Now how many AAA teams are on almost every tourney at least on the East coast anywhere from 12-20. If I was running this business I will go after what is making me money…the AAA teams. I believe that to some extent that is what RB from ISSA is doing. No M+ division and he get no complaints from the Major teams. Personally two divisions is all what is needed a competitive and a recreational division and you can label it anyways you want AAA and Major. One more thing don’t believe the hype about M or M+ they are not all of that and not that is not the best competition…most of the so called M+ are just a bunch HR hitters that can play no defense. By the way I played 50 major and have a 2010 TOC championship ring to prove it. Personally I put my glove at SS, arm strength and speed against any M or M+ SS any day and twice on Sundays. Mis dos centavos.

PR NINJA OUT

JESUS TE AMA
Feb. 25, 2015
titanhd
Men's 60
609 posts
Mario there in no logic in your statement.Because you "can't find a Plus team to play with we should never commbine Major and Plus"
If Major and Plus were combined it would be to your benefit. More teams-more opportunities. The sponsor statement makes less since for the same reason. You may have to join the club and pay your own way like the majority of us do. You hit the same size ball in Major as you do in PLus with or without a sponsor..
Feb. 25, 2015
mck71
273 posts
Paco, ISSA reminds me of the younger set now be full of D and E teams, the term used is "sandbagging". As stated above, some reasons are financial and paying to play in a tourney with 2 or 3 teams and some reasons are wanting to have an "opportunity" to win as opposed to paying good money for a beating. The philosophy of wanting to play against the best while great in theory isn't always the most popular (regardless of what guys will tell you). I would be lying if I didn't say that while I enjoy playing, my goal every weekend is to win. If I get beat by a better team, so be it but I would like to believe we have a "chance" to win when we enter. And based on my experience, RB simply has Majors playing in AAA and Plus teams are playing Majors. So if I am a good AAA team, then I need to be able to play Majors but if I am not, I need to get moved down to AA. Just my 2 cents.
Feb. 25, 2015
Mario
Men's 50
451 posts
My point waas that it cost more to play plus because you do have to travel to where the plus teams are playing. The logic in not finding a team is that there are only so many plus teams, I have not found one that needs a 3b,or a 1b man. I have and am willing to pay my own way. But have to have a team to play on first.
Feb. 25, 2015
Tim Millette
615 posts
So Mario.....the question to ponder is...

If the powerhouse players that seem to most of the time be playing on Sunday at Plus worlds/events were limited to a certain amount of players per team per team...would more Major teams move up?

My answer is........YES

IF MORE MAJOR TEAMS MOVED UP????

Would there be more spots available to players (like yourself) to be on Plus rosters?

AGAIN....my answer would be......YES
Feb. 26, 2015
Paco13
424 posts
mck71 I agree that on ISSA is a lot of sandbagging... You pay you play. The 50 AAA is probably the most competitive and it is because a lot of teams should be playing M us included, so in reality we are playing M ball without the tag. Last year was our first year playing together, started a little slow some of the guys having to get used to senior bats and the speed of the ball but we finished strong. This year I expect us to win few tourneys or at least make it to Sunday. Personally even though I believe that I can play either 50M or 55M I prefer to play with a bunch of nice guys that I enjoy spending a wknd with. I believe we have 5 or 6 Marines that played on the all Marines team when they were active duty...so the talent is there. Could we play 50M sure and I believe that we could compete...but why play $600 to play a 3-4 team tourney when you can pay the same and play on 10-15 team tourney and still compete. My friends there lies the problem.

PR NINJA OUT

JESUS TE AMA
Feb. 26, 2015
OZ40
549 posts
I know major players around here and regardless of their age, they still get offers to play on high level teams that are too young to play senior ball. The way the true major + players can smash the ball and/or their level of athleticism they will always find a willing team. I understand the rationale of wanting to play at your age level, that's why I moved to senior ball. But at the "plus" level at least here in MI, the opportunities are there to get on a high level team. The real core of plus caliber players with that special gift can find enough action to carry them through the summer.
Feb. 26, 2015
Mario
Men's 50
451 posts
Tim if you broke up Plus temas that win the worlds I believe you would have more Major teams and the reson is sponsorship. IF I had ever won Vegas and they broke my team up and I did not have sponsorship,like right now, then I would tell my guys that we should spilt up in 4's and play Major. Because our team would not be able to do the traveling like you need to do in the Plus division. I would rather play in 9-10 tourney's a year rather that 3-4 like I did last year. In our area there are only about 4-5 tourney's a year that you can drive to that will let plus teams in. Thats why we only played in 4 tourneys last year. You are right about it making more Major teams but I don't think it would make more plus teams.
Feb. 26, 2015
Mario
Men's 50
451 posts
OZ40 please let me know who these plus teams are you are speaking of. I'm from Indiana and that is a bordering state.
Feb. 26, 2015
Tim Millette
615 posts
Mario, you'd have to break into three per team not four.

I also believe if my concept was emplemented there is a good chance two groups of six would find find six quality players to make TWO Plus teams....

Also....it is my belief if the plus champion was weakend each year more bumped Major teams would stick in Plus ball.

As far as sponsoring teams goes....I have no pity for the guys that will not pay for their own hobby....if you need to split an entry fee 13 ways it's peanuts...and....you'd be hard pressed to find more then a very few teams that pay for their players hotel/rental cars/air fare....

As for the tourney thing....in NorCal we are lucky...there are 25 back yard NCSSA/all world/NSA/Ssusa events we can play in. We even have a ton of over 40 events to play in..
Feb. 27, 2015
OZ40
549 posts
Mario, I should have been clearer in my post. I was referring to guys like Wally, Reedy and Stick who play major+. Players of their caliber get asked yearly to play on non-senior teams that still compete in other sanctions at C class and above. The names of the teams change seasonally as sponsors change and players go from team to team. Sorry for any confusion. I guess the point I was trying to make was Major + players have options outside of senior ball to get enough games in to ensure that their softball fix satisfied.
Feb. 27, 2015
tattooball
756 posts
A couple of things here, the other association that does not have major+ still has great parity between the teams. We are major and beat major+ teams often, and the beat us the same. Are there some teams that get beat on a regular basis? Yes but in every division you have teams that get beat a lot more than they win.

Tim you hit the nail right on the head. If you are over 50 and can't afford to pay for yourself you should probably get a part time job on the weekend. Being that close to retirement and not being able to support your own hobbies isn't a good thing.

I know being a better player you are used to having someone pay for everything but sponsors have left the game and aren't coming back. Maybe it is a good time to be grateful we had them in the first place. I know I could buy a really nice house with the money I have spent over the years, I have no regrets but I am not going to continue to do this on 50+ year olds.
I had 1 guy that played golf 2 times a week at 120.00 a day but would call and complain he couldn't afford to split a hotel room with somebody for 2 nights, I don't think he is playing anywhere now.
Feb. 27, 2015
Mario
Men's 50
451 posts
Tim, OZ, tattoo I agree with you totally. If I could find 10 guys who would pay their own way I would be right there with them. Tim you guys are really blessed to have that many tourneys you can play. East of the MS river I believe there are 5-6 plus tourneys available to us here that is a reasonable drive.
Feb. 28, 2015
Tim Millette
615 posts
Mario, we are blessed indeed.

In NorCal many years ago the older players got together and formed their own players association....NCSSA...

Once organized, they stood together and TOLD the tourney directors what they were looking for.

The organization has around 100 senior teams...they break every tourney up into six team/5 game brackets...

There is a ranking committee that breaks the teams into groups based on ability...

If by chance a team from one group plays another lower level group team in the tourney there are runs spotted and or an extra player...

We use the 1 up homerun rule to keep scores close.

If...there are some senior leagues in your area...you could get all the coaches together and attempt to do as NCSSA...

I am sure the NCSSA board of directors would be up for sharing just how they built such a successful program...they can be found at "NCSSA 2014" on the net.
Feb. 28, 2015
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1224 posts
I second what Timmy said about NCSSA... it provides us with Great opportunity to play and with the one up rule and the runs spotted makes for lower level teams to compete with the big boys..
Feb. 28, 2015
Omar Khayyam
1352 posts
It gets even better for NCSSA. The average tournament entry cost is $300-310. Seems like guys pay a lot more in other associations. At every tournament you are guaranteed 5 or 6 games on the weekend because of the round robin schedule (no reason for a seeding round because teams are already rated). Teams that are over 60 are never scheduled to play under the lights. A guy can be on two different rosters. We use SSUSA rules with a few exceptions: for example, there is no mandatory face mask; bases are 65 feet; pitcher has a box that is 10 feet deep. It's amazing what teams can do when they organize to provide satisfying weekend softball opportunities.
March 1, 2015
Jawood
Men's 50
937 posts
The one-up rule is the best thing with no dbo's, it's so simple and fair! Didn't know they only played 65' bases, 70' brings more defense into play.
March 1, 2015
JBTexas
Men's 70
417 posts
Sounds like NCSSA is using the same format that FHC has been using for 25 plus years. Played in it for over 5 years and it works great, helps to have over 180 plus teams to do with. Wish we had the number of teams that Nor Cal and Florida have here in Texas to make it work, but we are to far spread apart to make Texas half century work the same way.
March 1, 2015
Fabe
Men's 60
444 posts
We have the perfect environment here in the Tropics...just not enough teams on each Island! Its a bummer, but playn young ones keeps skills going in the right direction....plus there is always surf! Aloha, Fabe
March 2, 2015
Pdurham95
5 posts
Our local associations have been combining 40 major and plus and 50s major and plus into one classification. Last weekend we got the crap kicked out of us by a 50s major plus team; we are a 40s major plus team. From one weekend to the next the major teams win the combines tourneys just as often as the major plus teams. Combing helps get the total number of teams up. We have had 15 teams in the last couple of tourneys. Much more fun than playing the same three teams in the ssusa tourneys.
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